Haiti
01-14-2010, 11:02 PM
#1
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Haiti
You miltary guy's and gal's are doing a great job in Port Au Prince. If anyone finds themselves going there military or not, contact the freq below FL 18 and deal with U.S. Miltary to get in. I won't say the freq becuase if you need it, you'll know. PAP only sends you in circuits until you are at min fuel and have to divert. PAP doesn't like it, but were bringing doctors for God's sake, why are we spinning in the air?
01-15-2010, 06:53 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
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From what the news stations are reporting, you're spinning because you're not the only aircraft trying to land at a field that has one operational runway, and very little ramp space. Hopefully, everyone will have their collective acts together and more supplies and personnel will be getting there sooner. But if you think you're frustrated and angry, just try to imagine how the Haitians feel. Regardless, Thanks for doing your share.
JJ
JJ
01-15-2010, 07:34 PM
#3
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I found myself wishing I was in a guard unit today, watching 3 C130's (One had the callsign "Music," interesting) coming in and then leaving BTL to head to MKC. I wish I could be bringing some supplies down... hell I just want to help!
01-16-2010, 05:07 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by detpilot
I found myself wishing I was in a guard unit today, watching 3 C130's (One had the callsign "Music," interesting) coming in and then leaving BTL to head to MKC. I wish I could be bringing some supplies down... hell I just want to help!
01-16-2010, 11:56 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,096
The delays are being caused by Maximum Aircraft on Ground (MOG). There is only so much ramp space and spare taxiways to park and put aircraft. Additionally, there may be limited numbers of air stairs, electric carts, air carts, loaders, and fuel (to name just a few). You can only put as many aircraft through an airfield up to what your ground support can handle.
This is where the USAF will shine. A C-17 can pretty much operate autonomously without the need for much ground support if any. Additionally, they can perform a star-point turn and be able to turn around in as much space as 90 feet (dimensions may be wrong but I know I'm close). To put that in perspective, a C-17 has almost identical dimensions as a DC-10.
As of yesterday, the news media was already complaining "why is it taking so long". This is the same garbage we heard after Hurricane Katrina. And the military response to Haiti has been almost identical to that after Hurricane Katrina. The problem with Katrina was the local state government (LA) did not ask for military help and therefore, it is illegal for the military to go in until this crucial and necessary step is performed. The Federal Government labeled the Gulf Coast a disaster area before she hit, but it didn't mean anything until they official asked for help. And there was a significant delay in that request.
Additionally, you have a lot of countries sending aid and it is probably uncoordinated. Until the military gets 100% control of the airfield and command and control set up, you're going to have airplanes hold and get refused.
The silver lining in this disaster will be that the military and first responders will learn a lot in how to better deal with disasters like this for the future.
This is where the USAF will shine. A C-17 can pretty much operate autonomously without the need for much ground support if any. Additionally, they can perform a star-point turn and be able to turn around in as much space as 90 feet (dimensions may be wrong but I know I'm close). To put that in perspective, a C-17 has almost identical dimensions as a DC-10.
As of yesterday, the news media was already complaining "why is it taking so long". This is the same garbage we heard after Hurricane Katrina. And the military response to Haiti has been almost identical to that after Hurricane Katrina. The problem with Katrina was the local state government (LA) did not ask for military help and therefore, it is illegal for the military to go in until this crucial and necessary step is performed. The Federal Government labeled the Gulf Coast a disaster area before she hit, but it didn't mean anything until they official asked for help. And there was a significant delay in that request.
Additionally, you have a lot of countries sending aid and it is probably uncoordinated. Until the military gets 100% control of the airfield and command and control set up, you're going to have airplanes hold and get refused.
The silver lining in this disaster will be that the military and first responders will learn a lot in how to better deal with disasters like this for the future.
01-16-2010, 12:33 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
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Not aviation related - but an additional help the military is providing (as they did in after Katrina), I believe the USNS Comfort is being deployed to the region. An AMAZING capability to put to use for a good purpose.
USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR
01-16-2010, 01:33 PM
#8
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KC10 and USMC are spot on. This is a USAID/DOS led operation from a US support perspective. DoD is doing everything it is being asked to do and then some. The Services are leaning very far forward in their efforts to not only support the HA/DR mission but also the Combatant Commander(SOUTHCOM) for that AOR. Lessons learned from Katrina are being incorporated into the current efforts within the Navy and I would bet across DoD and the USCG. I have been directly involved in the Strategic to Operational level of the Navy's effort for Haiti Ops. It is very detailed and very complex and each Service faces a number of different challenges in providing the capacity and capability to support the people of Haiti. Moving fwd establishing a force flow and logistics support base/network is key in addition to making the ports and air facilities usable and able to distribute aid. Sustaining that effort in the far term is next. Keep the people of Haiti in your thoughts and prayers and be thankful for all that you have. The surface of the ground truth in Haiti is only being scratched by the media.
01-17-2010, 01:06 PM
#9
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McChord C-17s To Haiti
I wonder if it's my old friend, Moose, on these missions.
From Associated Press:
McCHORD AIR FORCE BASE, Wash. —
Two C-17 cargo planes from McChord Air Force Base are on their way to assist in Haiti relief efforts.
The planes left Sunday morning, one for Langley Air Force Base in Virginia and the other to Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina. They'll pick up specialized teams and relief supplies to bring to Haiti, which was devastated by a magnitude-7 earthquake Tuesday.
Two other C-17s and four aircrews remain on alert at McChord for additional humanitarian relief missions.
McCHORD AIR FORCE BASE, Wash. —
Two C-17 cargo planes from McChord Air Force Base are on their way to assist in Haiti relief efforts.
The planes left Sunday morning, one for Langley Air Force Base in Virginia and the other to Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina. They'll pick up specialized teams and relief supplies to bring to Haiti, which was devastated by a magnitude-7 earthquake Tuesday.
Two other C-17s and four aircrews remain on alert at McChord for additional humanitarian relief missions.
From Seattle PI:
Two massive cargo planes based at Pierce County's McChord Air Force base joined the Haiti relief effort Sunday. The planes are bringing specialized equipment and an elite rescue team to the island, and will likely return to the U.S. with refugees.
One flew early Sunday morning to Langley Air Force Base in Virginia and the other one went to Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina.
The cargo on the Langley flight: A specialized truck that makes it easier to offload supplies from planes and onto waiting delivery trucks. The special truck will help speed the process of getting supplies into the hands of the people who need them. In the past few days there have been tremendous problems distributing the supplies arriving in Haiti.
For a crew used to moving soldiers to and from war zones, being a part of the Haiti relief effort offered a welcome change.
"I think it's an honor" to help with the relief effort, said First Lt. Joseph Hurley of the 62nd Airlift Wing as the C-17 headed east through the night. "It's not everyday you get to help somebody in need."
Disaster response missions are nothing new to the McChord air wings, the 62nd Air Wing and the Air Force Reserve's 446th Air Wing.
The McChord crews recently took part in relief efforts following Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Gustav and the 2009 tsunami that struck American Samoa. Still, most service members interviewed Sunday said they'd been deployed as part of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq during those efforts and did not participate.
With port access to the Haitian capital cut off and overland routes through the Caribbean island of Hispanola problematic, supply by air remains the key to delivering food, water and other essentials to the earthquake-devastated capitol city.
Two massive cargo planes based at Pierce County's McChord Air Force base joined the Haiti relief effort Sunday. The planes are bringing specialized equipment and an elite rescue team to the island, and will likely return to the U.S. with refugees.
One flew early Sunday morning to Langley Air Force Base in Virginia and the other one went to Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina.
The cargo on the Langley flight: A specialized truck that makes it easier to offload supplies from planes and onto waiting delivery trucks. The special truck will help speed the process of getting supplies into the hands of the people who need them. In the past few days there have been tremendous problems distributing the supplies arriving in Haiti.
For a crew used to moving soldiers to and from war zones, being a part of the Haiti relief effort offered a welcome change.
"I think it's an honor" to help with the relief effort, said First Lt. Joseph Hurley of the 62nd Airlift Wing as the C-17 headed east through the night. "It's not everyday you get to help somebody in need."
Disaster response missions are nothing new to the McChord air wings, the 62nd Air Wing and the Air Force Reserve's 446th Air Wing.
The McChord crews recently took part in relief efforts following Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Gustav and the 2009 tsunami that struck American Samoa. Still, most service members interviewed Sunday said they'd been deployed as part of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq during those efforts and did not participate.
With port access to the Haitian capital cut off and overland routes through the Caribbean island of Hispanola problematic, supply by air remains the key to delivering food, water and other essentials to the earthquake-devastated capitol city.
01-17-2010, 01:46 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
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Typical Air Force / Government program.
We have C-17 bases within 30 minutes of each location (Langley and Pope), but yet, we're going to fly empty C-17s across the country instead.
I'm just saying ...
We have C-17 bases within 30 minutes of each location (Langley and Pope), but yet, we're going to fly empty C-17s across the country instead.
I'm just saying ...
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