Fourgoslot

Space and missile geeks are now given "wings" and walk around in flight suits and leather jackets, so the term "operator" is pretty much given to anyone with a keyboard these days. I'm actually surprised we haven't given them flight pay yet. At least those flying UAVs are actually pilots...for now.

atpcliff

Hi!

This year's class of new pilot-trainees for the Air Force consisted of pilots and RPV/UAV operators. The non-manned aircraft pilots were over 1/2 of the total pilot numbers. They are going straight to RPVs and will probably never fly a manned aircraft.

There are 4 guys from my last US airline who are all now civvy contractors flying RPVs in either Afghanistan or the Phillipines. One of them was never in the military and really wanted to be, so this is very nice for him.

If I was a guy on the ground, or a commander, I would want whichever technology would work best to help me get the mission done.

I prefer to fly planes, but may be making the switch to RPVs because of economic circumstances.

cliff
NBO

Hacker15e

What "total pilot numbers" are you talking about?

Are you saying that greater than 50% of the current rated USAF pilot force flies RPVs right now? (not true)

Are you saying that greater than 50% of UPT grads are going to RPVs? (not true)

atpcliff

Hi!

It is this fiscal year's group of new pilots.

Less than 1/2 are going to start UPT, while more than 1/2 are starting UPT-RPV (or whatever they are now calling the UAV training program).

I read that as a post, I think from an AF press release. Can't remember which message board. Also read that the gov't is planning on tripling the number of drones they are flying.

cliff
NBO

Flameout

The issue isn't whether non-pilot drone operators are as good as pilot operators. It's whether the non-pilots are good enough to accomplish the mission within all normal mission parameters, including safety for the troops on the ground. I submit that the answer to that question is either "yes" or "we don't know for sure yet," not "no." In other words, the jury is still out. But soon we will know.

USMCFLYR

Not sure how the AF does it - I would assume that it was similar - but the flight pay was based on GATES of duty involving flight. As long as you made those gates then you rated flight pay. It didn't matter if you were in a flight billet at certain times in the career progression.

So if I had made my gates at the prescribed times and now I was in a UAV squadron I would still rate flight pay and the UAV operators would not (under current guidelines) I wonder if the smaller UAV operators are getting that same *incentive* pay?
Google Image Result for http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/Raven%20UAV_4_Photo%20by%20Cpl.%20Benjamin%20Cosse l.jpg

USMCFLYR

USMCFLYR

MEMA is right to an extent don't you think. The *incentive* (flight pay) is because we fly and in some ways can certainly be thought of as extra pay for the dangers of the job - just like sub pay, jump pay, dive pay, EOD pay, etc...

MEMA - check out these links if you want to get a better idea of ACIP/Hazardous Duty Pay and "flight pay".
Flight Pay - Military Benefits - Military.com

USMCFLYR

Deuce130

I disagreed due to the fact that not all aviators get the same pay though all share the same risk. My enlisted aircrew are going to die .1 seconds after me and the other pilot; it wouldn't be fair to insinuate that I get higher pay b/c my life is more valuable. Instead, I get higher pay due to my skill set and longevity. As such, I wouldn't be surprised (or care) if RPV operators got the same ACIP as I or any other flyer got. And in regards to a different poster, I also don't care who gets to wear flight suits, wings, leather jackets, scarves, or whatever patch is the cool one to have these days. Doesn't have any impact on me or the mission I do.

USMCFLYR

It isn't about whether your life is more valuable than theirs - and I'm sure NO ONE insinuated that. You get incentive pay because the job you do is dangerous. They get incentive pay for the same reasons. You get more than they do because of your education, training, rank, responsibility, etc.... The same reasons that the old grizzled Major (who has made all the required gates) gets more than the brand new 2ndLt. If you want to call this skill set and longevity - than it just just a difference in wording that we are talking about; I'm pretty sure we are saying the same thing here.
No - in my opinion the UAV flyers should not get the same pay without taking the same risks. Also - all of those things that you don't care about like flight suits, patches, WINGS, and such - those WERE/ARE suppose to be honors bestowed upon the werer for doing things and putting themselves at risk above and beyond. I suppose you think just anybody ought to get to wear a Purple Heart or Silver Cross too? How about a Special Forces Beret or a Trident? No....we aren't all the same. Those who made it through UAV training don't deserve to wear the same set of wings that YOU are wearing. They deserve their OWN set of wings (which it sounds like they got), and I don't deserve to wear them or their patches or anything else bestowed upon that community until I complete their training program.
I really hope you come to understand that.

USMCFLYR

Sputnik

Whats a "Silver Cross?"