exphrog

This will sound weird, but I am legit, and am hoping that perhaps someone on this board has some insight, because no one I've spoken to so far does.

I am a Marine MV-22B pilot. I have about 3000 hours total; roughly just under 100 hours T-34C, 1000 TH-57, 1100 CH-46E, and 900 MV-22B. I'm a little reticent writing those totals, because most of my peers could probably guess exactly who I am by that background. In any case, no one in the service knows what the civilian world will make of tiltrotor time on the outside.

The FAA calls it "powered lift," but since the BA-609 is going to be a niche player at best, I'm wondering what else will be available to me later on. Most of the time we fly the Osprey like a turboprop twin. However, since it shafts between the proprotors, we don't practice single-engine like most ME aircraft, i.e. we practice working with limited power, but we never have asymmetric thrust.

When airlines advertise openings, they usually specify a minimum fixed-wing time, of which I have either a fair amount, if my tiltrotor time is counted, or a minimal amount, if only my T-34 time is. Many specifically exclude helicopter time. Which category will the tiltrotor time fall under?

I have a few years left in to work on hours, but before anyone tells me to get a cush job flying a station C-12, know that the Corps is going to keep V-22 pilots in V-22 jobs until there are enough V-22 types to go around.

I plan on getting my ATP ticket at one of the civilian schools, like AllATP. However, I don't think my Marine career will offer me much time to moonlight as a civilian IP. How should I go about marketing myself for the civilian world when the time comes?

Thanks for bearing with me on the long post.

rickair7777

For hiring purposes airlines and other civilian employers account for flight time by aircraft class and category (and sometimes by type).

The FAA definitions are clear, and for professionals usually fall into airplane or rotorcraft categories.

A V-22 is clearly in the powered lift category, and by default that time will not count towards most airline requirements. In the case of helicopters, a few airlines allow some RW time to count towards your total time. But I have never heard of any allowance for PL.

Since PL is clearly it's own category I don't think there is any wiggle room for interpretation. It will not count, unless an employer consciously makes a special allowance for PL time.

You might find somebody in part 91 flying who will accept it, but even they might have insurance issues...without statistical history on PL pilots, insurance companies might not be eager to apply that time to their risk calculations. It's a bit of an unknown at this point.

Personally I think it should count as RW, not FW time for civilian employment purposes. All aircraft pretty work the same in cruise flight, so V-22 cruise experience isn't particularly relevant.

For FW aviation TO, LDG, and SE ops are where the skill comes into play...the V-22 does all of that stuff like a helo, not an airplane.

My guess is that you are going to be looking at civilian helo flying, unless you can get an IP tour of do some civilian flight instruction. But even with 1000 CFI hours, you might come up short on turbine airplane time...most decent airlines require 1000 hours of that.

But I would hire you with that background, it shows you can learn new tricks.

exphrog

Thanks for the input.

I might be able to do an IP or station pilot job as a twilight tour, but I'm not going to count on it.

I kind of figured on a lot of what you said above. I am concerned that helo companies will say,"You don't have our mins on helicopters," and airlines will say "You don't have our mins on airplanes."

For those employers that care to listen, the V-22 is an airplane that can land like a helo, not a helo that flies like an airplane. We don't do SE ops the same, but we do practice STOs and rolling landings like airplanes. When we go on the road, we go at altitude, IFR, like airplanes, not helicopters.

Maybe it will take several years seeing V-22 guys EAS before civilian employers see the skills they bring.

Aloha

Do not take a station pilot job on the advice of a message board. (It's doubtful you will get enough flight time as a station pilot to make a dent on the mins required if your V22 time does not count. If that is the case, spend your last tour back in Texas as a T34 IP. Texas, because MATSG cannot stick you back in the TH57 as a rotor instructor.)
Leatherneck, you are not the first Marine to walk this road. Ask around, quietly if need be, but your brothers have walked this road before. I am betting V22 time would be considered fixed-wing time (regardless of how the FAA has it classified). Why not just man up, call the airline’s HR department, and ask them directly. The SWA people dept. will return your call or email with an answer. My .02 cents for what it is worth.
Semper fi,
Aloha

exphrog

I guess going to the hrose's mouth IS a decent idea. I thought it might be regarded as odd to call and ask,"I'm looking to apply for a job in four years, what do you think about..." It can't hurt, I suppose. Maybe giving a little lead time might allow their personnel dept to come up with an answer. I doubt most of the airlines have even thought about it.

USMCFLYR

I think a station C-12 would be very useful for a twilight tour. Good flying, multi-engine turbine time, and a very useful type rating out of it. You can also fairly easily get your ATP out of a checkride if you don't already have it. Lots of places hiring right now are flying the King Airs and already being type rated and having a 1,000 hours or so of time isn't a bad thing.
Of course knocking out 400+ hours per year as a T-34C IP might help with the overall hours that would be accepted at the airlines, but then again you aren't building any multi-time that may be accepted.
If you got really lucky, you might find yourself in a UC-35 and get another valuable type rating.


USMCFLYR

XHooker

I agree. While I think station C-12 pilot sounds good and know a lot of helo guys who used it as they're path to multi time, Aloha seems to have some knowledge otherwise. Even if you only get a few hundred hours in the C-12, I think it can be parlayed into a stepping stone flying gig after you get out. You'll bag a bunch of hours in primary, but it's all low performance SE time. What about throwing your hat in the ring to be a T-44 instructor? That would be the best of both worlds. FWIW, I don't think your V-22 time will be counted as multi fixed time, but who knows? Asking can't hurt.

Sputnik

Aside--what's a "station pilot?" AF guy, not getting the lingo.

USMCFLYR

Every Air Station has a Headquarters and Headquarters Squadron (H&HS).
Headquarters and Headquarters Squadron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They use to handle the SAR birds and the stations C-12 and UC-35 aircraft for their own scheduling (Base CO use to basically own the planes). If I understand it corrently now - all scheduling is done through the office that handles all of the transportation requests.

USMCFLYR

exphrog

At New River, the station pilots bag between 30-50 hrs/mo, from what I hear. Not a bad way to get a little twin time. Any flavor of flight school IP would still beat a desk job twilight, but indeed, teaching Maritime would be the best of all worlds.

Like I said earlier, I don't know how easy it will be to get a non-V22 billet. There still aren't enough V-22 pilots to go around.

My question was geared more towards,"How should I approach airlines/other carriers with what I have?" vice how do I spend my last years in the Corps.

I already know what to ask for from the Corps in terms of billets, I just don't know whether I'll get it. My assumption has to be that I'll get a few hundred more V-22 hours and the rest will stay the same.