Would Like Opinion on UPT Slot.
05-07-2010, 07:08 PM
#32
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Silver2Gold
Are they able to be told that they were overpowered in the middle, flat at the ramp, and would have boltered their pass? Can they handle you telling them they were out of position, all day, and slow to correct it? Or, do they retreat to alibis and reasons why things were not actually as bad as you told them they were?
We called this the EXCUSE MATRIX, and it is alive and well, and tags a replacement pilot early in training. Sometimes there are reasons for mistakes or miscommunications, but it becomes very evident when every critique is met with a barage of "Well.....the thing is/was...."
Everyone knows that the ONLY criticisms that you shouldn't pay attention to are the LSOs!
USMCFLYR
05-10-2010, 11:50 PM
#33
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
Mustangcbra,
I can tell many of the people offering advice aren't guard and reserve folks. I've done both active and guard.
Your grades are just fine. Your AFOQT scores are fine. I was never in the reserves, so I can't really give you any insight on them, however I'll bet they are much like the guard. When we hire pilots, we plan on working with them for the next 20 years. We like guys that live in town (or be willing to move there). Since it is assumed to be a long term commitment, personality is more important than aceing the AFOQT. We don't want to hire people that we can't see working with for 20 years. You hire a few cancerous toads and it can spoil the working environment.
I disagree with the guy that said that you shouldn't enlist. It depends on the unit, we hire from within whenever possible. It is, like one person suggested, an ongoing interview. Check with the units you apply with (and apply to any unit that you could see yourself flying for) and talk to them. Consider enlisting if it helps. I've seen several guys not get slots after enlisting if they turn out to be d-bags. I'm sure you aren't one of them and that you would do just fine. We usually don't hire guys off the street. It's taking a chance on someone that we don't know very well. We also hire legacies (relatives of current/former members) often.
Anyway, the key is networking. A good reference is key to getting a job. Good luck
I can tell many of the people offering advice aren't guard and reserve folks. I've done both active and guard.
Your grades are just fine. Your AFOQT scores are fine. I was never in the reserves, so I can't really give you any insight on them, however I'll bet they are much like the guard. When we hire pilots, we plan on working with them for the next 20 years. We like guys that live in town (or be willing to move there). Since it is assumed to be a long term commitment, personality is more important than aceing the AFOQT. We don't want to hire people that we can't see working with for 20 years. You hire a few cancerous toads and it can spoil the working environment.
I disagree with the guy that said that you shouldn't enlist. It depends on the unit, we hire from within whenever possible. It is, like one person suggested, an ongoing interview. Check with the units you apply with (and apply to any unit that you could see yourself flying for) and talk to them. Consider enlisting if it helps. I've seen several guys not get slots after enlisting if they turn out to be d-bags. I'm sure you aren't one of them and that you would do just fine. We usually don't hire guys off the street. It's taking a chance on someone that we don't know very well. We also hire legacies (relatives of current/former members) often.
Anyway, the key is networking. A good reference is key to getting a job. Good luck
05-11-2010, 04:06 AM
#34
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
golfandfly,
Whereas I agree with the majority of what you've posted above, I hope our Mustangcbra understands that enlisting in the military, regardless of branch (USAF or TXANG or USAFR, etc) comes with the expectation that if one doesn't get what one wants, they will still serve out their commitment. I mention this because as you certainly know, pilot training slots in a Guard Unit (or a Reserve unit), while not quite like hens teeth, are certainly a coveted thing, and as such, competition for them is sort of fierce.
I'm sure that Mustang is probably a good guy, but frankly, his academics, while not an eliminating factor, are surely a partial-predictor of his future success in UPT. As well, he will be competing with others in that unit, who have been there, probably for a longer time, and who are well known throughout their unit.
As you, I'm not saying he shouldn't enlist, just that there's a certain jeopardy to enlistment with the specific intention of garnering a rare pilot training slot.
JJ (30 years in the ANG)
Whereas I agree with the majority of what you've posted above, I hope our Mustangcbra understands that enlisting in the military, regardless of branch (USAF or TXANG or USAFR, etc) comes with the expectation that if one doesn't get what one wants, they will still serve out their commitment. I mention this because as you certainly know, pilot training slots in a Guard Unit (or a Reserve unit), while not quite like hens teeth, are certainly a coveted thing, and as such, competition for them is sort of fierce.
I'm sure that Mustang is probably a good guy, but frankly, his academics, while not an eliminating factor, are surely a partial-predictor of his future success in UPT. As well, he will be competing with others in that unit, who have been there, probably for a longer time, and who are well known throughout their unit.
As you, I'm not saying he shouldn't enlist, just that there's a certain jeopardy to enlistment with the specific intention of garnering a rare pilot training slot.
JJ (30 years in the ANG)
05-11-2010, 06:33 AM
#35
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
JJ,
You are absolutely right. Enlisting has it's risks. And that risk is working as an airman and never getting a pilot slot. It depends on the unit, but we have had only one external hire in my 10 years in the ANG. We've had many that enlisted and didn't get a pilot slot also. It is definitely a risk, no doubt about it.
I don't put much merit on grades and AFOQT scores. Unfortunately, almost everyone makes it through UPT these days. I think when I went through, I'd say 30% (or more) or so didn't make it. I'd say that it is around 10% now. It's a kinder and gentler program. Many friends of mine that are still instructing students say it is very difficult to give someone the boot.
Anyway, I do agree that enlisting is taking a very big risk. Personally, I am not sure if I would have done it. But it is another option.
You are absolutely right. Enlisting has it's risks. And that risk is working as an airman and never getting a pilot slot. It depends on the unit, but we have had only one external hire in my 10 years in the ANG. We've had many that enlisted and didn't get a pilot slot also. It is definitely a risk, no doubt about it.
I don't put much merit on grades and AFOQT scores. Unfortunately, almost everyone makes it through UPT these days. I think when I went through, I'd say 30% (or more) or so didn't make it. I'd say that it is around 10% now. It's a kinder and gentler program. Many friends of mine that are still instructing students say it is very difficult to give someone the boot.
Anyway, I do agree that enlisting is taking a very big risk. Personally, I am not sure if I would have done it. But it is another option.
05-12-2010, 03:30 PM
#36
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: DC9 Flap Operator
Posts: 172
Enlisting makes no sense since the individual already has a college degree. Although (golfandfly) your unit only hires from within, there are many units in this country that need pilots and hire from the outside. You have to have years to burn to enlist and try to get a UPT slot. Some fighter wings even send folks to UPT every other year, or maybe longer.
My advice to the OP is apply to every single unit. There are some units who send 3 or 4 to UPT at a time.
My advice to the OP is apply to every single unit. There are some units who send 3 or 4 to UPT at a time.
05-12-2010, 03:36 PM
#37
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Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,193
Originally Posted by crewdawg;806716[B
]Personally I would rather take the 3.4 student that work 2 jobs and had to pay his own way thru school than the 4.0 student that did no work, but school and had mom and dad pay for everything. The time management skills of balancing jobs and school will pay big dividends in UPT[/B]. Now there are those who do work and get a 4.0, good on them, if they are a good dude, I would love to have them in the squadron. But I know that that is not always the case and can cut the dude some slack.
Goodluck
Goodluck
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