Veteran's Preference
11-25-2011, 06:50 PM
#11
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
Originally Posted by Golden Bear
I'm sure I'll catch all kinds of grief for this, but it sure would be nice if we lived in a society where prospective candidates were judged solely on their qualifications and positions were awarded only on merit.
USMC, for many years and over many announcements I pursued the job you currently have. I feel strongly that my education, training, and experience (Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities, if you will) were a perfect fit for the job in question. Throughout that process I tracked down the heads of the offices in both SAC and OKC and spoke at length with them several times. The last conversation I had ended with a statement to the effect of "you are exactly the kind of candidate I'd love to have in this position, and you have demostrated your desire, ambition, and commitment, but due to the preference required by Federal Law I have not had a civilian application forwarded to my desk by the selection office in over two decades."
I certainly have no beef with the military, and thank our soldiers every chance I can for their service. I also don't have any problem with prior service being credited towards an overall candidate's evaluation when it directly applies to the position applied for. It is just really frustrating to not even be able to make my case as the best qualified for the position because my pre-employement screening questionaire doesn't score high enough to even get my application on the desk of those who make the decisions.
Not that the government has ever been a model of efficiency or logic, but this kind of preference would receive all kinds of anti-affirmative action backlash if it benefited a gender or ethnic group.
These are governent, not military jobs, and I am a tax-paying citizen of this country just as much as anyone who has worn a military uniform. Level the playing field, and let the best man win.
FWIW, my grandfather was an electrician in the Navy during the attack on Pearl Harbor, my uncle was in the 82nd Airborne, and my Father-in-law was on a destroyer off the coast of Viet Nam, so please don't think I do not understand or appreciate the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform.
USMC, for many years and over many announcements I pursued the job you currently have. I feel strongly that my education, training, and experience (Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities, if you will) were a perfect fit for the job in question. Throughout that process I tracked down the heads of the offices in both SAC and OKC and spoke at length with them several times. The last conversation I had ended with a statement to the effect of "you are exactly the kind of candidate I'd love to have in this position, and you have demostrated your desire, ambition, and commitment, but due to the preference required by Federal Law I have not had a civilian application forwarded to my desk by the selection office in over two decades."
I certainly have no beef with the military, and thank our soldiers every chance I can for their service. I also don't have any problem with prior service being credited towards an overall candidate's evaluation when it directly applies to the position applied for. It is just really frustrating to not even be able to make my case as the best qualified for the position because my pre-employement screening questionaire doesn't score high enough to even get my application on the desk of those who make the decisions.
Not that the government has ever been a model of efficiency or logic, but this kind of preference would receive all kinds of anti-affirmative action backlash if it benefited a gender or ethnic group.
These are governent, not military jobs, and I am a tax-paying citizen of this country just as much as anyone who has worn a military uniform. Level the playing field, and let the best man win.
FWIW, my grandfather was an electrician in the Navy during the attack on Pearl Harbor, my uncle was in the 82nd Airborne, and my Father-in-law was on a destroyer off the coast of Viet Nam, so please don't think I do not understand or appreciate the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform.
11-25-2011, 07:05 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Golden Bear
I'm sure I'll catch all kinds of grief for this, but it sure would be nice if we lived in a society where prospective candidates were judged solely on their qualifications and positions were awarded only on merit.
USMC, for many years and over many announcements I pursued the job you currently have. I feel strongly that my education, training, and experience (Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities, if you will) were a perfect fit for the job in question. Throughout that process I tracked down the heads of the offices in both SAC and OKC and spoke at length with them several times. The last conversation I had ended with a statement to the effect of "you are exactly the kind of candidate I'd love to have in this position, and you have demostrated your desire, ambition, and commitment, but due to the preference required by Federal Law I have not had a civilian application forwarded to my desk by the selection office in over two decades."
I certainly have no beef with the military, and thank our soldiers every chance I can for their service. I also don't have any problem with prior service being credited towards an overall candidate's evaluation when it directly applies to the position applied for. It is just really frustrating to not even be able to make my case as the best qualified for the position because my pre-employement screening questionaire doesn't score high enough to even get my application on the desk of those who make the decisions.
Not that the government has ever been a model of efficiency or logic, but this kind of preference would receive all kinds of anti-affirmative action backlash if it benefited a gender or ethnic group.
These are governent, not military jobs, and I am a tax-paying citizen of this country just as much as anyone who has worn a military uniform. Level the playing field, and let the best man win.
FWIW, my grandfather was an electrician in the Navy during the attack on Pearl Harbor, my uncle was in the 82nd Airborne, and my Father-in-law was on a destroyer off the coast of Viet Nam, so please don't think I do not understand or appreciate the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform.
USMC, for many years and over many announcements I pursued the job you currently have. I feel strongly that my education, training, and experience (Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities, if you will) were a perfect fit for the job in question. Throughout that process I tracked down the heads of the offices in both SAC and OKC and spoke at length with them several times. The last conversation I had ended with a statement to the effect of "you are exactly the kind of candidate I'd love to have in this position, and you have demostrated your desire, ambition, and commitment, but due to the preference required by Federal Law I have not had a civilian application forwarded to my desk by the selection office in over two decades."
I certainly have no beef with the military, and thank our soldiers every chance I can for their service. I also don't have any problem with prior service being credited towards an overall candidate's evaluation when it directly applies to the position applied for. It is just really frustrating to not even be able to make my case as the best qualified for the position because my pre-employement screening questionaire doesn't score high enough to even get my application on the desk of those who make the decisions.
Not that the government has ever been a model of efficiency or logic, but this kind of preference would receive all kinds of anti-affirmative action backlash if it benefited a gender or ethnic group.
These are governent, not military jobs, and I am a tax-paying citizen of this country just as much as anyone who has worn a military uniform. Level the playing field, and let the best man win.
FWIW, my grandfather was an electrician in the Navy during the attack on Pearl Harbor, my uncle was in the 82nd Airborne, and my Father-in-law was on a destroyer off the coast of Viet Nam, so please don't think I do not understand or appreciate the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform.
I know your frustration and can agree with you on parts of it. I have benefited by, and I believe that I have earned, some consideration for my sacrifices and service above self to the country. The above posts from Dragon7 burns me to the core. I can spend 11-20 years in the Corps and not get a single preference point towards a gov't job (UNLESS I am disabled), but a guy who spends 4 years in the military (3+ of those being in schools before he ever hits the fleet) gets 5 points preference. I think the preference points could be directly related to years of service for example.
As for my current job, I know that you have applied over the years and have contacts in the offices. But unlike the networking civilian world, you have to make it through OPM HR first and it doesn't matter who you know at first. When I started this thread this morning I started thinking of the guys in my office who are non-military. Not one that I could think of came to flight check just out of the blue. All of them came to flight check via other means within the gov't/FAA - mostly through ATC and TERPS. One guy came here through TSA (the smurfs - not the airline) just a few years ago.
There are other ways. I didn't have a lot of time during my stints in the desert in the last few years to being hanging around the FBOs of the country networking for a job with XOJet either and it seems that I couldn't even reach the status of 'glimmer in the eye' to the recruiters there without an internal recommendation.
USMCFLYR
11-26-2011, 05:33 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by Golden Bear
These are governent, not military jobs, and I am a tax-paying citizen of this country just as much as anyone who has worn a military uniform. Level the playing field, and let the best man win.
Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with what a 30% disability entails?
Frankly, I'm not sure you chose the right venue to express your displeasure. What did you hope to gain by posting that here?
11-27-2011, 05:11 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: holding pattern
Posts: 128
Hey USMC, I'm looking for abundant clarity on this.
*Military retirees at the rank of major, lieutenant commander, or higher are not eligible for preference in appointment unless they are disabled veterans.*
I'm a retired O-4, USAF. I have a low percentage of rated disability. (It's greater than zero; I'd have to check my VA physical exam junk.)
I have tossed around the FAA work idea for a while, assuming I'd get the vet's preference. Would I get the five points on a federal job app, or not?
Thanks,
zach
*Military retirees at the rank of major, lieutenant commander, or higher are not eligible for preference in appointment unless they are disabled veterans.*
I'm a retired O-4, USAF. I have a low percentage of rated disability. (It's greater than zero; I'd have to check my VA physical exam junk.)
I have tossed around the FAA work idea for a while, assuming I'd get the vet's preference. Would I get the five points on a federal job app, or not?
Thanks,
zach
11-27-2011, 06:01 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by zach141
Hey USMC, I'm looking for abundant clarity on this.
*Military retirees at the rank of major, lieutenant commander, or higher are not eligible for preference in appointment unless they are disabled veterans.*
I'm a retired O-4, USAF. I have a low percentage of rated disability. (It's greater than zero; I'd have to check my VA physical exam junk.)
I have tossed around the FAA work idea for a while, assuming I'd get the vet's preference. Would I get the five points on a federal job app, or not?
Thanks,
zach
*Military retirees at the rank of major, lieutenant commander, or higher are not eligible for preference in appointment unless they are disabled veterans.*
I'm a retired O-4, USAF. I have a low percentage of rated disability. (It's greater than zero; I'd have to check my VA physical exam junk.)
I have tossed around the FAA work idea for a while, assuming I'd get the vet's preference. Would I get the five points on a federal job app, or not?
Thanks,
zach
You are either not eligible (per the above statement), or you are disabled and eligible for the 10 points preference. As far as how much rated disability you received from the VA, in my short time dealing with this and listening to my peers whom have retired, I have not heard of less than 10% compensated disability.
You should also Google the SF-15 and take a look at the form and see which blocks you could check on it and if you have questions, contact your nearest VA Administration office and have a meeting with them to make sure that you understand exactly what you rate and don't rate.
If the current plan goes through, this next year is the time to get on with the Federal government since the reduction in federal workforce through attrition is the current flavor of the month.
USMCFLYR
11-27-2011, 08:24 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: holding pattern
Posts: 128
Okay, (after an hour's search!) found the letter they sent following my VA exam. I had a few things that were judged to be service-connected, but the eval's bottom line that I was 0% disabled by them. The letter said, in a slightly confusing way, that my 10% disability was denied. (I was awarded 10% of zero!)
Thanks much for the information. I now see clearly that I will NOT be receiving any preference for an FAA job.
zach
Thanks much for the information. I now see clearly that I will NOT be receiving any preference for an FAA job.
zach
11-27-2011, 09:26 AM
#17
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by zach141
Okay, (after an hour's search!) found the letter they sent following my VA exam. I had a few things that were judged to be service-connected, but the eval's bottom line that I was 0% disabled by them. The letter said, in a slightly confusing way, that my 10% disability was denied. (I was awarded 10% of zero!)
Thanks much for the information. I now see clearly that I will NOT be receiving any preference for an FAA job.
zach
Thanks much for the information. I now see clearly that I will NOT be receiving any preference for an FAA job.
zach
USMCFLYR
11-27-2011, 09:37 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 73 gear slinger
Posts: 312
Forgot to add: Hindsight being 20/20, without question if I knew then what I know now I would have gone the mil route. This particular situation is not even on the list of reasons why. My own children will be encouraged should they express an interest.
Sorry for the digressive rant. Thank you again to all who have served.
Sorry for the digressive rant. Thank you again to all who have served.
You should know that "to go the mil route" does not mean you would have even been flying airplanes or for that matter, living the good life gaining those post-mil bonus points. You could have been stuck with Intel, Space&Missles, ABM, etc, just to name a few.
To earn a commission, be accepted/attend/graduate UPT, graduate your multiple MWS upgrades, PME courses, higher ed, additional duties, deployments, moving your family every three years, and a multitude of other issues that come with the "mil route", it takes a selfless devotion well worth any veteran's preference points.
Regardless if mil or civ, it seems that "who you know" always pays the biggest "pref points". My goal has always been to treat others with the respect and dignity that I hope to receive in return.....that, and to be a good dude!
Good luck.
11-27-2011, 12:15 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by zach141
I had a few things that were judged to be service-connected, but the eval's bottom line that I was 0% disabled by them.
While that doesn't help you get a job right now, it doesn't mean what you've got is worthless.
On a slight tangent, with the new laws allowing federal agencies to share information with the FAA, is having VA disability good for those of us with first class medicals? Or is this a pandora's box of potential liability from the FAA AME perspective? In other words, we're holding ourselves out as "fit to fly" and yet we may be receiving disability for hearing, or eyesight, or some other service-related disability?
11-27-2011, 12:28 PM
#20
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,945
Originally Posted by LowSlowT2
Don't discount the value of "service related" disability with no compensation. What that means is you currently aren't hampered/disabled by your service-related injuries. If, in the future, you develop other problems related to these previously identified areas, you can then refile and claim VA disability.
While that doesn't help you get a job right now, it doesn't mean what you've got is worthless.
On a slight tangent, with the new laws allowing federal agencies to share information with the FAA, is having VA disability good for those of us with first class medicals? Or is this a pandora's box of potential liability from the FAA AME perspective? In other words, we're holding ourselves out as "fit to fly" and yet we may be receiving disability for hearing, or eyesight, or some other service-related disability?
While that doesn't help you get a job right now, it doesn't mean what you've got is worthless.
On a slight tangent, with the new laws allowing federal agencies to share information with the FAA, is having VA disability good for those of us with first class medicals? Or is this a pandora's box of potential liability from the FAA AME perspective? In other words, we're holding ourselves out as "fit to fly" and yet we may be receiving disability for hearing, or eyesight, or some other service-related disability?
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