Originally Posted by thurberm
(Post 1133691)
When I worked at HQ ACC Weapons & Tactics we worked hard to kill this abortion. Of course, our protestations fell on deaf ears. Case of simply buying the cheapest possible attack aircraft we could find vs. one that actually handles the mission and can bring the pilot home. Another sad case of letting the budget drive the equipment and tactics instead of the other way around, and senior leadership ignoring the seasoned advice of their best tacticians. I'd hate to find out MY son got tapped to fly one of these. It's another A-37. And we were smart enough to ditch those ourselves way back when and give them all to the Banana Republics.
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Originally Posted by satpak77
(Post 1133718)
Me wonders how this is possible with all the MC-12 backlogged orders, and civilian King Air sales. Granted the Premier is not selling as expected.
Please shed more light on this ! |
Originally Posted by satpak77
(Post 1133718)
Me wonders how this is possible with all the MC-12 backlogged orders, and civilian King Air sales. Granted the Premier is not selling as expected.
Please shed more light on this ! |
I only know what I'm told and from my understanding, from a friend who worked on this program, the A-29 was the better aircraft. No details as to why though.
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Originally Posted by Cubdriver
(Post 1133800)
I would urge you to be skeptical of any aircraft company performance outlook statement based purely on back orders. It is a nearly meaningless number. There are a number of ways the back order log can be bolstered to look like something strong, when it is actually meaningless. It has no real merit until the cash is paid and the airplane is delivered. People always get so impressed by back orders. Cessna had billions of dollars in back orders in 2008 and by mid 2009 sales were so poor the company was forced to lay off half its work force, and almost went under.
Me also wonders how many, really now, ISR King Airs do we really need, in light of UAV's, and other solutions. The King Air used market, I don't see many mid-2000's and newer models for sale. So that segment must be doing pretty good, or at least nothing is for sale. Read that how you want to I suppose. I wonder how TBM and Pilatus are affecting HBC. Why spend 6M on a new 350 when I can spend 4M on a 2007 model and get the same thing. I mean, come on. |
HBC delivered something around 300 aircraft in 2011. I'd say that's more than a "downward spiral". Also, a phenom 100 was leased to compare quality to the Premier and there is no comparison. The Premier won hands down. (this was not a media ploy, no statements were ever released about it).
In response to the MC-12, according to military releases it was the most flown airframe in Afghanistan, being a much more economical platform for ISR. |
Originally Posted by bcaviator
(Post 1133846)
HBC delivered something around 300 aircraft in 2011. I'd say that's more than a "downward spiral"...
Flying- Troubling Developments at Hawker Beechcraft ...Also, a phenom 100 was leased to compare quality to the Premier and there is no comparison. The Premier won hands down. (this was not a media ploy, no statements were ever released about it). ...In response to the MC-12, according to military releases it was the most flown airframe in Afghanistan, being a much more economical platform for ISR. There is an old saying- recognizing your problem often supplies half of its solution. |
This program should have been left with SOCOM where it belongs and call it a day. The abortion was tieing Service dollars to the acquisition and FMS/politicians getting their mitts into the process. End rant...
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As my old boss would say..."This is a big chocolate mess..."
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Originally Posted by Cubdriver
(Post 1133926)
I would like to see a source on that. They would have to have ignored Premier's tendency for runway over-runs for one thing, plus totally missed the steep cost of manufacturing which was a point I made earlier.
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