USAF: Didn't Learn The Last Time?
01-16-2014 | 01:45 PM
#31
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Awesome base awesome location and I wish I was there again for the wine festivals the area had to offer...
01-16-2014 | 01:49 PM
#32
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From: B-777 F/O
If the "Cert" tests for nukes is like it was back in the SAC days it is a zero tolerance, high pressure,comprehensive test of manuals and procedures.
In SAC I was a pilot of a plane which sat alert for "Air Launch Command and Control". The tests were so precise the questions were given from a tape recorder so other than starting and stopping the tape there was no chance for help even from how the question was read. The tests were given under time constraints as well. The only passing score was 100%
To fail a Cert was the equivalent of failing a check ride.
I can understand the guys using gouge. Cooperate and graduate. Problem is
the Missile mentality is totally to obey an order- hence the wearing of the firearm.
In SAC I was a pilot of a plane which sat alert for "Air Launch Command and Control". The tests were so precise the questions were given from a tape recorder so other than starting and stopping the tape there was no chance for help even from how the question was read. The tests were given under time constraints as well. The only passing score was 100%
To fail a Cert was the equivalent of failing a check ride.
I can understand the guys using gouge. Cooperate and graduate. Problem is
the Missile mentality is totally to obey an order- hence the wearing of the firearm.
01-16-2014 | 03:04 PM
#33
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From: On the Rock
For nuclear certified bomber and tanker folks, testing is still 100% to pass. You test as a crew, but there's no cheating. Given that's there no moving plane involved, I can't see how the missile tests aren't less complicated. News story from last week said no morale problem in the missile force. Drugs and test gouge=happy campers!
01-16-2014 | 05:18 PM
#34
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If the "Cert" tests for nukes is like it was back in the SAC days it is a zero tolerance, high pressure,comprehensive test of manuals and procedures.
In SAC I was a pilot of a plane which sat alert for "Air Launch Command and Control". The tests were so precise the questions were given from a tape recorder so other than starting and stopping the tape there was no chance for help even from how the question was read. The tests were given under time constraints as well. The only passing score was 100%
To fail a Cert was the equivalent of failing a check ride.
I can understand the guys using gouge. Cooperate and graduate. Problem is
the Missile mentality is totally to obey an order- hence the wearing of the firearm.
In SAC I was a pilot of a plane which sat alert for "Air Launch Command and Control". The tests were so precise the questions were given from a tape recorder so other than starting and stopping the tape there was no chance for help even from how the question was read. The tests were given under time constraints as well. The only passing score was 100%
To fail a Cert was the equivalent of failing a check ride.
I can understand the guys using gouge. Cooperate and graduate. Problem is
the Missile mentality is totally to obey an order- hence the wearing of the firearm.
01-21-2014 | 04:03 PM
#35
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01-22-2014 | 01:27 PM
#36
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From: Work
I went to UPT in the 80s, and my perception was this:
In the academic phase, in the academic building--you better do things the right way, integrity first, etc etc. Do your own work, learn this stuff, and compete for top academic honors.
Once on the flightline, with weekly EPE tests, it was a "cooperate and graduate" exercise. We were actually ADMONISHED when one or two weak sisters were struggling on these tests while the rest of us made 100s. We were put on formal release, chastised for not taking care of our classmates, etc. Copy--lesson learned and applied ASAP! (The fact the USEM would leave the EPE test in the Flt CC office, in the open, on top of a desk, etc should NOT be construed as encouraging--right?). Class starts to make 100s. IPs happy. Students happy. Lesson learned--take care of the team and work together!
Funny thing is I never had a problem with this set of mixed messages. The academic environment was just that--a place where we were expected to learn, study, and apply the lessons to our training.
The flight line was the start of the "this is what is means to be a warrior" mindset. Warriors work together, take care of each other, and are only as strong as the weakest link. The wink wink/nudge nudge wasn't hard to understand from the IPs, but I never was confused that the cooperate/graduate model was to be applied there, and not in other areas. Like flying, there was judgement involved.
My understanding is later in the late 90s or early 2000s the **** hit the fan for the same type deal in UPT. Zero tolerance equals zero tolerance. Again--I we worked together at survival training, we worked together in combat, and I never saw the issue as the whole EPE gig was just to keep you in the books, not to stratify you from your peer group.
Anyone else from that era have similar memories or am I just AFU?
In the academic phase, in the academic building--you better do things the right way, integrity first, etc etc. Do your own work, learn this stuff, and compete for top academic honors.
Once on the flightline, with weekly EPE tests, it was a "cooperate and graduate" exercise. We were actually ADMONISHED when one or two weak sisters were struggling on these tests while the rest of us made 100s. We were put on formal release, chastised for not taking care of our classmates, etc. Copy--lesson learned and applied ASAP! (The fact the USEM would leave the EPE test in the Flt CC office, in the open, on top of a desk, etc should NOT be construed as encouraging--right?). Class starts to make 100s. IPs happy. Students happy. Lesson learned--take care of the team and work together!
Funny thing is I never had a problem with this set of mixed messages. The academic environment was just that--a place where we were expected to learn, study, and apply the lessons to our training.
The flight line was the start of the "this is what is means to be a warrior" mindset. Warriors work together, take care of each other, and are only as strong as the weakest link. The wink wink/nudge nudge wasn't hard to understand from the IPs, but I never was confused that the cooperate/graduate model was to be applied there, and not in other areas. Like flying, there was judgement involved.
My understanding is later in the late 90s or early 2000s the **** hit the fan for the same type deal in UPT. Zero tolerance equals zero tolerance. Again--I we worked together at survival training, we worked together in combat, and I never saw the issue as the whole EPE gig was just to keep you in the books, not to stratify you from your peer group.
Anyone else from that era have similar memories or am I just AFU?
01-24-2014 | 01:29 PM
#37
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From: Boeing right seat
01-25-2014 | 03:20 PM
#38
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From: B-777 F/O
Correction to my previous post where I thought it was a 'Cert" test they had the gouge.
From a "Looking Glass and PACCS" FB site I'm on someone wrote
" And, this isn't a case of 'cone heads' simply cheating on a "security exam". These clowns cheated on Command Control Procedures examinations. A huge difference".
When we had our tape tests they were called "CCP" for Command and Control Procedures. The quote was one guys comment but makes more sense as to the test.
Why the national news for this I do not know. Seems like it should be dealt with within the Wing.
From a "Looking Glass and PACCS" FB site I'm on someone wrote
" And, this isn't a case of 'cone heads' simply cheating on a "security exam". These clowns cheated on Command Control Procedures examinations. A huge difference".
When we had our tape tests they were called "CCP" for Command and Control Procedures. The quote was one guys comment but makes more sense as to the test.
Why the national news for this I do not know. Seems like it should be dealt with within the Wing.
01-25-2014 | 04:47 PM
#39
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From: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
Two of us - Navigators - going through UPT (1965) got in serious trouble with the "civilian" navigation instructor. On the E6B the instructor taught "wind up" in the wind triangle whereas Navs used "wind down." After class we taught our fellow students wind down. Come test time and the instructor walks around the class and sees everybody using wind down. He went ballistic. Two of us are given "counseling.
I apologize to the new generation who don't understand E6B and wind triangle let alone celestial navigation.
I apologize to the new generation who don't understand E6B and wind triangle let alone celestial navigation.
01-29-2014 | 04:35 AM
#40
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