Han Solo

TL: DNR? Go to last paragraph and skip all the thought processes...

I'm asking specifically about retirement, not separations since they seem to have a different process for the two -- I know lots of guys who have withdrawn/adjusted their separation date but none who have attempted this for retirement. I am approved for a retirement date in a few months and have about 3-4 weeks to make this decision before I start running into excess leave issues. I've had my apps in since August and have seen a lot of friends get hired yet for some reason my phone hasn't rung. Of those hired, some have been slightly more qualified, some slightly less, but for the most part my experience and credentials put me right in the heart of what the airlines are picking up from retiring USAF fighter pilots.

I really only have 2 choices: suck it up at a regional for XX months until I get a call or try to wait it out a few more months on AD. I guess I have a 3rd choice of retire and wait around but I don't plan to exercise that option.

If I suck it up at a regional, I get an edge over almost every other military pilot out there since I'll be able to check the 121 container but frankly I know this isn't required since I know so many guys who have been hired without it. If my application to extend my retirement date is denied then this will end up as the default choice.

If I extend my retirement date, I'll earn significantly more money over the months where I would've been at the regional but I'll be a little less flexible in start date, and my resume' really won't get any better -- I've got so many hours that what I get in an extra XX months probably won't score me any higher on my airlineapps application. I'm not too worried about the start date since the airlines I most highly desire have pools so full that even with the delay in retirement date I might have a month or two of sitting around waiting for a class. There's a very small part in the back of my brain that keeps telling me to GTFO since the USAF could pull some stop-loss crap on me during that extra vul time but I think I'm probably not the target of any future stop-loss actions.

Anyway, that was a very verbose explanation of my thought process since I'm not really asking for advice on what road to take, but I am asking for advice from anybody who got an approved (or disapproved) retirement extension on what to put in my request. I plan to ask for a retirement extension based upon "needs of the AF" since I do not qualify for the other two reasons they allow when extending a retirement. (Un)fortunately my unit is near 100% manned which takes that option away as a good reason for the AF to help me out. The AFI very specifically states you cannot use inability to secure employment as a reason to extend your retirement date. In my favor, I'm an 11F3H which is one of the most critically manned AFSCs around. Of course AFPC already knows my AFSC so I'm not sure how much I should write about my awesome F-16 skills and prowess . I emailed the POC @ AFPC to see if they could answer my questions and of course I got an autoreply telling me to go EAD, they're too busy with VSP to actually answer questions (so they've got time to approve/disapprove my package, but not enough to help me make it a successful package, sounds like promotions but I digress). So, in addition to being my own finance officer, travel officer, computer officer, and who knows what else, I'm now also my own retirements and separations adviser. Anyway, I'd appreciate any insights folks may have on this.

BL not UF:
1. What info should I put in my request to maximize chance of success?
2. Does length of extension request matter?
3. Does crossing into a new FY decrease PK of success?

Thanks!

Wilbro

Wow, Han Solo, I'm in exactly the same boat as you, and I've been thinking about the same options lately. I've had apps in to the majors since Oct. I consider myself competitive with several internal recs. No calls or interviews, and I'm retiring this summer. I haven't found anyone in the AF who has extended a retirement date. My commander thinks that I should be able to get a 60-90 day extension pretty easily. I have just started looking into this option and haven't called my CSS yet. If I find out anything I'll let you know.
My other ideas are to work til the end and sell back 60 days of leave. Live off that for two months, and fly for the regionals or a contractor for a while. Good luck to you!

ExAF

I did this nearly 15 years ago so the info is old, but may still apply. At the time, pilot manning was short, and "needs of the AF" was in my favor. I was "hired" and waiting for training. It was at least 6 mos out. I had a 90 day extension approved for my retirement. Would have worked out fine except when I called in the final week, MPC said, your are approved, but we are implementing stop loss next week. If you don't retire now, you may be extended past your extended retirement date. If you still want to retire this week, I can round file your extension. I retired 4 days later. I ended up selling back that 60 days of leave. The extension would have made the transition much easier, but I wasn't going to risk getting caught up in another stop loss.

Ftrooppilot

A coupe of assumptions you want to think about.

1. The airlines want as many military pilots as then can get.

"Shaping the workforce" requires otherwise. Distribution of age and prior experience avoids retirement humps and institutes a homogenized (sorry for that word) cockpit. In ten years an airline does not want all civilian trained Captains and military trained first officers.

2. The airlines prefer military pilots over regional pilots.

"Military flight experience does not parallel airline operations." I flew C-141s all over the world but it had little comparison to airline ops other then being in a big airplane. I did not fly city to city in the US. A ten year regional CRJ or ERJ Captain knows the airline "system", the FAA "system" and the union "system." When going to a major he or she is changing airplanes but operating in the same systems whereas everything is new to the military pilot.

3. The regional airlines want military pilots.

"IMHO - no." They know what you are there for - to check off a block on the resume. Training time/ simulator time is an investment and there is no recouping if a new FO leaves after 6 months to a year for the majors. Given a new 1500 hr. CFI/ATP who will stay there for 4-6 years (at least) or a military pilot - they will take the civilian every time. Regionals in a "world of hurt" will hire anybody.

4. Regional flight time will give me an edge in major hiring.

"IMHO - not over regional Captains" I am/was a military pilot and know the "confidence level / ethos. Put yourself in the place of a Jr FO at a regional. Your seniority level is low which means your flight time will also be low - lots of standby. You will probably be based a long distance from your family. If 40+ years old you will probably be a little "resentful" of working for much younger CRJ/ERJ Captains who are making 4-5 times the money (not counting military retirement), are based near their family and are getting hired by the majors because of their experience level. You may find yourself "stuck" at a regional.

My advice. Stay where you are and "shine like a diamond in a goat's a**." Wait for the move "UP."

HuggyU2

I don't believe you can get traction on your case.

- Your Wing CC will probably have to write a letter supporting you. Do you see this happening when your unit is 100%, and Big Blue is unloading as many people as they can?

- AFPC is swamped. Getting them to give you any "personal attention" right now is unlikely.

- AFPC wants people out. There is nothing that will help their numbers by allowing you to extend.

Your one option? Pull your retirement papers, if you can. Cancel them altogether. Once that occurs, you can then re-evaluate your position, and reapply to retire.

ExAF

While that may all be true, If one doesn't ask the question, the answer will always be no.

HuggyU2

Unfortunately, if he tries to extend and is told "no", it will significantly hurt his chances of getting support to pull the retirement in its entirety. He will probably get one shot,... not two.

I'd recommend pulling the entire thing, and starting over.

Best wishes in your choice.

Sputnik

How do you "pull" your retirement? You apply and get approved, what is there to pull?

Honest question, I'm in a similar boat.

HuggyU2

Same thing, really. You are asking the AF... through the AFPC "process" (it's all about "the process"... unfortunately) to allow you to canx your retirement and stay on.

Simply asking to extend a few months makes it obvious you are trying to work a PFA.

Asking to terminate the retirement approval altogether looks "better" to AFPC... my opinion only. Also, much easier for your Wing CC to endorse, since he will be concerned about "the perception" (unfortunately).

YMMV.

Han Solo

Huggy and Ftroop, you guys remind me of my students when I ask a yes/no question and I get a 5 minute diatribe on what they were thinking. My decision is made, I'm asking for an extension. What I am asking for here are tips from somebody who has been successful getting one approved.

Ftroop, did you just make up all that regional information or do you have some experience with it? The bold makes it look official and all, but I am going to call shenanigans. 100% of the guys I know who are current/qualified mil pilots with an ATP have been hired when they went to a regional. I know one guy who hasn't flown in 3 years who was told to try again in 6 months by Skywest but he porked the sim badly and didn't get interview prep.

Sputnik, you just go to the exact same link where you requested retirement and there is an option to change/withdraw the retirement date. You put in a paragraph of why it's a good idea for the AF to keep you around, and put in your CC's email address. For me pulling papers is not an option because the moment I do that my DoR will go away and the 179 nazis will have me. It's extend or retire, I'm definitely not pulling entirely.