John Carr

It's been covered. But brotha', if your skin is that thin and you can't handle a reality check, your time trying to serve your country and be an officer/leader will be riddled with butthurt. I've known a few guys that had the grades, whatever and it when it came down to crunch time and ACTUALLY signing the papers had the ACTUAL
realization hit them of what they may ACTUALLY endure and be asked to do. And chose a different path.

Nevermind trying to fly airplanes.

galaxy flyer

Yazzoo,

If it hasn't registered, any tactical squadron is a rough-and-tumble place where the thin-skinned get weeded out. Flying fighters is a competitive, tough and demanding job. The relationship to airline flying is like comparing F1 driving to driving a bus. I've lost at least six good friends there as has others here, how many dead airline "captains" do you know?

GF

rickair7777

All wrong. I was under the same misconception years ago.

You have UNLIMITED mil leave for a very wide variety of activities. The five year limit actually only applies to a narrow range of "voluntary" AD service (although I'm sure many employers have the same misconception you do). Off the top of my head, these are unlimited leave...

Initial training. This includes guard/reserve/regular AD. Includes boot camp/OCS, MOS training and anything else needed to get you qualified (ie seasoning orders).

Any obligation incurred by initial training. This is a biggy because it also includes regular active duty accession service obligations, ie wings plus eight years or whatever. USERRA is not just for reserves.

Normal drills and AT. You can do your one weekend/month and two weeks/year forever and it's doesn't count one day against your five years. You can do more than two days/two weeks and it still doesn't count. Pretty sure ADT is OK too.

Any involuntary active duty. Important technicality...this means the character of the orders, NOT any discussion that occurred prior to the orders. If the orders, once cut, are invol then it doesn't count against your five years. You can volunteer (verbally or formally) to be involuntarily activated and you're still protected. The employer has no knowledge (or need to know) of discussions leading up to orders being cut. I think DoD now specifies that most orders should state "involuntary" to protect the member, just to prevent employers from using their "judgement" as to what constitutes vol or invol.

Any activation, including voluntary, in support of OCO/GWOT/Title 10. This covers almost everything since 9/11.

In order to actually run your five year clock on federal orders, you would have to get voluntary orders to something which has no role (direct or supporting) in OCO. Basically we're talking war college/academy professor or maybe war college student, or possibly a few other niche jobs including some state guard jobs. Almost anything else counted as OCO (not sure how long that will last).

Yazzoo

Ok guys, I'm sorry if I came across as cocky or arrogant, because I surely didn't mean to. It seemed like he was talking down to me in my post, as if I didn't consider truly wanting to serve my country and the more serious aspects of military service. Of course I have considered the fact that I might be injured/killed/etc.

My bringing up being an airline captain was meant to show the contrast between my level of experience and that of a young kid who just thinks "The military is cool, I'm good at COD so I will apply and drop bombs and kill people LOL!" Not saying I'm better'n anyone else, even though that seems how people interpreted it. I was NOT saying "I'm a captain at an airline, so this will be a breeze, I don't care what you have to say"

I know that heading down a path of serving my country might result in injury/death/sacrifice. That was the first acknowledgement I made when I considered it as a career choice. The purpose of this thread now is to pick a smart way to move down that path. So please don't hold what I said against me, because it seems like something was lost in translation, and I apologize if anyone was offended.

PRS Guitars

Personally, I'll stick with that you should go for it. I've flown (at the airline) with several people who wish they'd pursued military aviation. Yes, of course you need thick skin and a good attitude. Part of that you should already have and part will be learned in OTS/UPT/IFF/RTU and at your squadron. You're actually getting a taste of it on here. It's a cultural thing and takes developing.

To some of the other posters on here, you'd likely be pretty disappointed in some (not all or even most) of the UPT students out there today. At one pilot training base you can't even tell a student to make popcorn or coffee anymore, because students complained about it in end of course critiques!

Yazzoo,

You'll do fine, just lay low until you start to learn the culture. Get some mentoring from guys that have been there, done that. And most importantly, never pass up the opportunity to **** (except on anonymous Internet boards of course).

Edit: didn't realize my acronym above would be censored. It was Shut The Blank Up....fill in the Blank

galaxy flyer

We're doomed, the end is nigh!

GF

Tweetdrvr

The end for the AF started with the overreaction to the Tailhook scandal in 1992. Ever since it has been a downward spiral of overeactions....Kelly Flinn in 95, USAFA cadet murdering girlfriend in 99 ish timeframe, to getting rid of songbooks 2 years ago. I have said it before and will say it again....the sad thing is in 15 years, today's young'uns will see these as the good old days.

galaxy flyer

I had a Wing Commander who said the AF started downhill when they got rid of flight line kitchens--the ground crunchies won the battle using budgets as an ax.

GF

Packrat

Yaz,

Never forget that flying the airplane is secondary to accomplishing the mission. Getting the bombs on the target on time, working the BARCAP or covering the Alpha strike is what you're signing up for.

And if there's no jet pipeline seats the week you happen to finish Navy Primary, you could just find yourself flying P-8s or even helicopters.

Navy flying is all based on mission accomplishment and, above all, "Needs of the Navy." I wish I had a buck for every time I heard that phrase. I know a guy who ended up flying helos even though he was the number one guy the week he graduated Primary.

No jet slots, 5 multi slots and 1 helo slot. The other 5 guys got the multi slots. Why? 3 were married and 2 were ex-enlisted P-3 aircrewmen. He was the only single guy and it was cheaper to move him from Corpus Christi to Pensacola for helo training and it was the end of the fiscal year and moving money was tight.

That is how Navy selection works, like it or not. I've also see weeks where there were ONLY jet slots and some pretty weak sticks ended up going to TACAIR. Granted those guys either washed out or ended up in S-3s.

That said, if I had it to do all over again, I'd check out ANG squadrons that fly the airplane you want to fly. If you get picked up there, you're pretty much guaranteed to get what you want not suffer the vagaries of the "Needs of the Navy."

bababouey

Don't ever join the Navy unless you want helos, nobody has been non-vol'd to a helo in the AF in quite a few years.