Considering Enlisting -- Probably the usual questions.
02-08-2007, 06:05 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Considering Enlisting -- Probably the usual questions.
I'm currently working on 4 year degree and flight training, and as of now will probably start flight instructing in a year to build hours.
The military route or experience has crossed my mind several times and I am willing to seriously consider it. I really don't know anything about choosing to go this way. And I'm stubborn and really don't feel like committing unless I'm confident I will get a fixed-wing flying job.
I've heard in the ANG you can know what you will fly before training, is this accurate? Would I need to enlist and commit to 6 years before having any options? If I enlist now what am I going to be doing for the ANG while I'm in school? Can someone explain what I will need to do chronologically to get to flying for them?
I'm definitely open to other military options as well, I just have the impression there is less of a guarantee for flying jobs in other divisions.
After I was done serving what kind of hours would I have? (I guess specifically PIC turbine)
Any help is much appreciated, this is just what's on the top of my mind.
The military route or experience has crossed my mind several times and I am willing to seriously consider it. I really don't know anything about choosing to go this way. And I'm stubborn and really don't feel like committing unless I'm confident I will get a fixed-wing flying job.
I've heard in the ANG you can know what you will fly before training, is this accurate? Would I need to enlist and commit to 6 years before having any options? If I enlist now what am I going to be doing for the ANG while I'm in school? Can someone explain what I will need to do chronologically to get to flying for them?
I'm definitely open to other military options as well, I just have the impression there is less of a guarantee for flying jobs in other divisions.
After I was done serving what kind of hours would I have? (I guess specifically PIC turbine)
Any help is much appreciated, this is just what's on the top of my mind.
02-08-2007, 06:28 PM
#2
APC co-founder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
I'm sure you'll get lots of good information in this thread, I've been out of the game too long to offer anything useful. One thing I can offer however is some terminology. If you have a a dialog with a recruiter and he's using the word "enlist" - stop the conversation right there!
If you want to fly in the military, you want to pursue a "commission". Pilots in the Air Force are commissioned officers, and are not enlisted.
Your on the right track to ask questions, and from your apparent knowledge on the subject - keep asking. Don't sign anything until you're fully informed and comfortable with committing the next 10 years to uniformed service.
If you want to fly in the military, you want to pursue a "commission". Pilots in the Air Force are commissioned officers, and are not enlisted.
Your on the right track to ask questions, and from your apparent knowledge on the subject - keep asking. Don't sign anything until you're fully informed and comfortable with committing the next 10 years to uniformed service.
02-08-2007, 08:20 PM
#4
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 75/76 FO
Posts: 92
The Air Force Option
OPTION 1
Continue pursuing your degree. Start networking to meet people working in a Guard or Reserve unit that you'd like to fly for (units in your own home state are a plus). Get them to hire you. They will send you to boot camp to get your commission and then you'll be off to pilot training for a year followed by 3-6 months more initial qual training in whatever aircraft you'll be flying. It will take about about 3 years of flying to upgrade to aircraft commander (AC)if you are in a crew airplane. Obiviously a fighter dude will log PIC from day one. After making AC, you'll be logging that precious PIC time that airlines require. About 3 more years as the AC (depending on how much you fly) should get that turbine PIC where it needs to be. From the start of pilot training, I'd guess that it would take about 6 years to finally have enough PIC to be competive at the majors. That may be about what the unit's pilot committment would be anyway....not sure though....I'm an active duty guy.
OPTION 2
Go active duty via ROTC or OTS (just make sure either way you are guranteed a pilot slot...OTS might be better for this). They will send you to boot camp then pilot training and then you'll owe the Air Force 10 years (yes, 10 years!) before you can get out to apply for the majors. You will definitely have the turbine PIC by then!
OPTION 3
Go the civilian route which I know nothing about but have heard is very long and frugal.
I recommend Option 1....just my $.02 Hope this helps.
OPTION 1
Continue pursuing your degree. Start networking to meet people working in a Guard or Reserve unit that you'd like to fly for (units in your own home state are a plus). Get them to hire you. They will send you to boot camp to get your commission and then you'll be off to pilot training for a year followed by 3-6 months more initial qual training in whatever aircraft you'll be flying. It will take about about 3 years of flying to upgrade to aircraft commander (AC)if you are in a crew airplane. Obiviously a fighter dude will log PIC from day one. After making AC, you'll be logging that precious PIC time that airlines require. About 3 more years as the AC (depending on how much you fly) should get that turbine PIC where it needs to be. From the start of pilot training, I'd guess that it would take about 6 years to finally have enough PIC to be competive at the majors. That may be about what the unit's pilot committment would be anyway....not sure though....I'm an active duty guy.
OPTION 2
Go active duty via ROTC or OTS (just make sure either way you are guranteed a pilot slot...OTS might be better for this). They will send you to boot camp then pilot training and then you'll owe the Air Force 10 years (yes, 10 years!) before you can get out to apply for the majors. You will definitely have the turbine PIC by then!
OPTION 3
Go the civilian route which I know nothing about but have heard is very long and frugal.
I recommend Option 1....just my $.02 Hope this helps.
02-09-2007, 08:25 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Various
Posts: 428
Doesn't the Army offer flying jobs to non-commissioned officers (warrant officers) without college degrees?
Flying discussion aside, there is little in this world that would ever convince me that quitting college before graduation would be anything but counterproductive. Unless you're working on the next Google or Microsoft or something.
Some guard units will hire you "off the streets" (assuming you have completed college already I guess), but I have no real experience with Guard/Reserve units yet.
I rolled my dice with Air Force ROTC. It may be different now, but in 2002 pilot slots were competitive and not all my friends got them. Besides being physically (visually) qualified you also had to score relatively well on a basic aptitude exam, get good grades in school, and receive a good recommendation from your commander. Having civilian flying hours increased your overall potential as well. I was lucky. I went to a school that worked hard for it's pilot wannabes.
I think graduates of the Air Force Academy who are qualified get priority on the pilot slots, but I can't prove that.
What I am discovering is that being in the Air Force as a pilot isn't necessarily a flying job. If you are interested in 100% flying you would probably do better spending your money and living "frugal" in the real world. Air Force pilots are officers as well and have to jump through a number of officer hoops that have nothing to do with flying. It gets painful at times, and the 10 year commitment I have (from the date of pilot training graduation) means I won't be eligible to get out until 2014. But the Air Force offers a lot of benefits you won't find in the real world, like good health care and pretty good pay. You takes the good with the bad, I guess.
But if a recruiter ever tells you that you can fly in the Air Force as an enlisted man/woman, he/she means you can fly in the back as a loadmaster or boom operator. The only time you'll fly at the controls is in the sim for fun.
Either direction you go, go there with a college degree.
Flying discussion aside, there is little in this world that would ever convince me that quitting college before graduation would be anything but counterproductive. Unless you're working on the next Google or Microsoft or something.
Some guard units will hire you "off the streets" (assuming you have completed college already I guess), but I have no real experience with Guard/Reserve units yet.
I rolled my dice with Air Force ROTC. It may be different now, but in 2002 pilot slots were competitive and not all my friends got them. Besides being physically (visually) qualified you also had to score relatively well on a basic aptitude exam, get good grades in school, and receive a good recommendation from your commander. Having civilian flying hours increased your overall potential as well. I was lucky. I went to a school that worked hard for it's pilot wannabes.
I think graduates of the Air Force Academy who are qualified get priority on the pilot slots, but I can't prove that.
What I am discovering is that being in the Air Force as a pilot isn't necessarily a flying job. If you are interested in 100% flying you would probably do better spending your money and living "frugal" in the real world. Air Force pilots are officers as well and have to jump through a number of officer hoops that have nothing to do with flying. It gets painful at times, and the 10 year commitment I have (from the date of pilot training graduation) means I won't be eligible to get out until 2014. But the Air Force offers a lot of benefits you won't find in the real world, like good health care and pretty good pay. You takes the good with the bad, I guess.
But if a recruiter ever tells you that you can fly in the Air Force as an enlisted man/woman, he/she means you can fly in the back as a loadmaster or boom operator. The only time you'll fly at the controls is in the sim for fun.
Either direction you go, go there with a college degree.
02-09-2007, 12:21 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 319
Just be very wary of the recruiter who tells you that the best way to become a pilot is to enlist. He's trying to sell you something you do not want.
I've met dozens of guys who were emptying trash cans or cleaning crappers even though they wanted to be a pilot --that's what their recruiter told them was the best way to do it.
I've met dozens of guys who were emptying trash cans or cleaning crappers even though they wanted to be a pilot --that's what their recruiter told them was the best way to do it.
02-09-2007, 12:41 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by AnotherPilot
I'm currently working on 4 year degree and flight training, and as of now will probably start flight instructing in a year to build hours.
The military route or experience has crossed my mind several times and I am willing to seriously consider it. I really don't know anything about choosing to go this way. And I'm stubborn and really don't feel like committing unless I'm confident I will get a fixed-wing flying job.
I've heard in the ANG you can know what you will fly before training, is this accurate? Yes, each ANG unit hires individually. So, you only fly what they have, C-17, F-16, etc.
Would I need to enlist and commit to 6 years before having any options? Not really. Before you go to AMS (OTS for the guard) you must enlist. You will go to AMS as a SSGT and be a 2LT 6 weeks later. It is not necessary to enlist before being offered a pilot slot. At some units it may help you get an interview but no guarantees.
If I enlist now what am I going to be doing for the ANG while I'm in school? Depends on the enlisted career field you sign on for. One bonus is many state schools offer free or reduced tuiton to guard members.
Can someone explain what I will need to do chronologically to get to flying for them? Most units won't select a UPT candidate unless they are within 1 year of finishing college. So you need: 3+ years of college, take the AFOQT and BAT, get a Class 1 physical (military, not FAA). You would need to contact each unit individually to get specifics, but that should be what most are looking for. Flight time always helps. Most require at least a PPL. I've seen selectees have from 50 to 3000 hours.
I'm definitely open to other military options as well, I just have the impression there is less of a guarantee for flying jobs in other divisions.
After I was done serving what kind of hours would I have? (I guess specifically PIC turbine)
Depends on whether you go fighters or heavies. You won't log PIC as a fighter guy till you hit RTU. Plan on about 200 hrs a year on average. You have a 10 year commitment AFTER getting your wings (UPT is a year). It's not all full-time but plan on being tied to the military for at least 11 years once you start flight training.
Any help is much appreciated, this is just what's on the top of my mind.
The military route or experience has crossed my mind several times and I am willing to seriously consider it. I really don't know anything about choosing to go this way. And I'm stubborn and really don't feel like committing unless I'm confident I will get a fixed-wing flying job.
I've heard in the ANG you can know what you will fly before training, is this accurate? Yes, each ANG unit hires individually. So, you only fly what they have, C-17, F-16, etc.
Would I need to enlist and commit to 6 years before having any options? Not really. Before you go to AMS (OTS for the guard) you must enlist. You will go to AMS as a SSGT and be a 2LT 6 weeks later. It is not necessary to enlist before being offered a pilot slot. At some units it may help you get an interview but no guarantees.
If I enlist now what am I going to be doing for the ANG while I'm in school? Depends on the enlisted career field you sign on for. One bonus is many state schools offer free or reduced tuiton to guard members.
Can someone explain what I will need to do chronologically to get to flying for them? Most units won't select a UPT candidate unless they are within 1 year of finishing college. So you need: 3+ years of college, take the AFOQT and BAT, get a Class 1 physical (military, not FAA). You would need to contact each unit individually to get specifics, but that should be what most are looking for. Flight time always helps. Most require at least a PPL. I've seen selectees have from 50 to 3000 hours.
I'm definitely open to other military options as well, I just have the impression there is less of a guarantee for flying jobs in other divisions.
After I was done serving what kind of hours would I have? (I guess specifically PIC turbine)
Depends on whether you go fighters or heavies. You won't log PIC as a fighter guy till you hit RTU. Plan on about 200 hrs a year on average. You have a 10 year commitment AFTER getting your wings (UPT is a year). It's not all full-time but plan on being tied to the military for at least 11 years once you start flight training.
Any help is much appreciated, this is just what's on the top of my mind.
02-09-2007, 12:55 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
I appreciate all of the comments. I heard some of the same things from a guy I work with, who is in the ANG, but not as a pilot. I think I'm going to focus on getting my degree done and then try for a pilot spot.
So networking right now is the best thing to do? The unit in my home state only has heavies--I would love to fly them too, but fighters has always been on my wish list. I guess I'll do what I can to make connections and try to get hired by a unit close by with the airplanes I want.
I'm still open to other advice as well.
So networking right now is the best thing to do? The unit in my home state only has heavies--I would love to fly them too, but fighters has always been on my wish list. I guess I'll do what I can to make connections and try to get hired by a unit close by with the airplanes I want.
I'm still open to other advice as well.
02-09-2007, 01:48 PM
#10
Hire me
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Take the AFOQT and own it.
Take the TBAS and own it.
over 201 hours doesn't benefit any score, but it'll probably show the unit that you're determined to succeed.
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm hoping to score a FY10 slot when the time comes. What unit(s) are you interested in?
Take the TBAS and own it.
over 201 hours doesn't benefit any score, but it'll probably show the unit that you're determined to succeed.
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm hoping to score a FY10 slot when the time comes. What unit(s) are you interested in?
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