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Old 12-20-2016, 04:59 PM   #1
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Default Boeing Trainer

Boeing T-X jet fighter trainer makes maiden flight
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:29 PM   #2
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I'm sure it'll be on time and under budget.
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Old 12-22-2016, 07:24 AM   #3
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I'm sure it'll be on time and under budget.

They haven't won the contract yet.
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Old 12-22-2016, 12:00 PM   #4
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I'm sure it'll be on time and under budget.
Northrop Grumman claims that all T-38s were delivered on time, at or below the contract price, and met the promised performance goals. If true, that's a rare accomplishment in defense procurement.

T-38 Talon
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Old 12-22-2016, 01:05 PM   #5
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Irony: it was being chased by a T-38....

Impressions:

Surprisingly large left rudder input just a few seconds into the takeoff roll.

Canopy seems way too big. Yeah, you don't want the claustrophobia of the T-38, but it seemed overkill. Does it really help vis, or is it to meet a "Same size as an F-16" criteria?

It's a big airplane, and even with a much more efficient turbofan than the J85s, I seriously doubt the flying cost per hour will be equal to---let alone be less than---the Talon.

Narrow-base F-16/F-104 style gear. How wobbly will that be for neophytes?

It looks cool, and I'm sure high-AoA characteristics will be far superior to the 38.

Waiting to see the Northrop entry.

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Northrop Grumman claims that all T-38s were delivered on time, at or below the contract price, and met the promised performance goals. If true, that's a rare accomplishment in defense procurement.
As I recall, the first ones (FY61) were $440k each, and the final ones were $960k.
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Old 12-22-2016, 02:20 PM   #6
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Default Jaw-dropping

Not many things can generate nostalgia for Webb AFB (Big Spring, TX), but the T-38 does. We new students were shown a slide and told: "This particular aircraft set a record -- brake release to 40,000 feet in 90 seconds. You can fly it, because it's sitting out there on the ramp."
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Old 12-23-2016, 03:56 AM   #7
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Irony: it was being chased by a T-38....

Impressions:

Surprisingly large left rudder input just a few seconds into the takeoff roll.

Canopy seems way too big. Yeah, you don't want the claustrophobia of the T-38, but it seemed overkill. Does it really help vis, or is it to meet a "Same size as an F-16" criteria?

It's a big airplane, and even with a much more efficient turbofan than the J85s, I seriously doubt the flying cost per hour will be equal to---let alone be less than---the Talon.

Narrow-base F-16/F-104 style gear. How wobbly will that be for neophytes?

It looks cool, and I'm sure high-AoA characteristics will be far superior to the 38.

Waiting to see the Northrop entry.



As I recall, the first ones (FY61) were $440k each, and the final ones were $960k.
Would be interesting to see what the larger two seat canopy does for the departure characteristics, it was a problem early on with the F/A-18 B/D before the updated flight control computer software mitigated some of that.

The left rudder inputs aren't a big deal there IMHO, my sense is like the Hornet/SuperHornet, the rudders are tied to NWS so you'll see them deflect with even small inputs to the rudder pedals(NWS). My guess is that the rudder effectiveness at that low of an airspeed is nil. Just my $.02.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:19 PM   #8
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Build more T38s, best ever!
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:06 PM   #9
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Would be interesting to see what the larger two seat canopy does for the departure characteristics, it was a problem early on with the F/A-18 B/D before the updated flight control computer software mitigated some of that.

The left rudder inputs aren't a big deal there IMHO, my sense is like the Hornet/SuperHornet, the rudders are tied to NWS so you'll see them deflect with even small inputs to the rudder pedals(NWS). My guess is that the rudder effectiveness at that low of an airspeed is nil. Just my $.02.
Agreed on departure characteristics. I've been told the two-seat Eagles are the same way (easy to depart).

My point on the rudder input: usually, especially on a first-flight, a guy is going to line-up VERY straight. On brake release, unless there is a sizeable crosswind (or the ABs don't light symmetrically...but wait!! This only has one) it is rare to see such a huge stabbing motion of an input.

Yes, All the tactical planes I flew in the Air force had the rudder tied to the NWS, so that's not surprising.

If it was crosswind, we'd have probably seen a series of progressively smaller---or just one small steady---input(s).

It seemed like it didn't want to go where he wanted it, whether initial line-up, a dragging brake, a crosswind...and took a surprisingly (to me) large boot-full to fix it.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:40 AM   #10
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Agreed on departure characteristics. I've been told the two-seat Eagles are the same way (easy to depart).

My point on the rudder input: usually, especially on a first-flight, a guy is going to line-up VERY straight. On brake release, unless there is a sizeable crosswind (or the ABs don't light symmetrically...but wait!! This only has one) it is rare to see such a huge stabbing motion of an input.

Yes, All the tactical planes I flew in the Air force had the rudder tied to the NWS, so that's not surprising.

If it was crosswind, we'd have probably seen a series of progressively smaller---or just one small steady---input(s).

It seemed like it didn't want to go where he wanted it, whether initial line-up, a dragging brake, a crosswind...and took a surprisingly (to me) large boot-full to fix it.
Maybe the pilot is a tail wheel guy, flight control gains at low speed, nose wheel steering gain at high speed or with power up, short coupled gear, rudder gain at low speed, etc etc etc

I wouldn't read too much into it. It's a Boeing product so whatever happens, handeling will be the least of its problems.
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