Originally Posted by C2078

Funny. I am that 3rd year guy and he is telling me it’s Balloons and Ponies 🤦‍♂️, interesting.

Disclosure. This is if I had been working 7/7. If I had chosen to work CC72 or 76, I would of made more money at NJ, not by a huge amount, but more. But then you have to compare Apples to Apples, meaning if I had worked 18 or 19 days a month at month at Brown, I would of made significantly more.

Here is the clearest example/breakdown:

1) I bid lines that average 11-12 days of work per month. My line value is usually around 70 hours per month, but our minimum guarantee is 75, so I start with that much. Throughout the month I do a couple of trip trades that increase my line value to about 80 hours (that has been my average), simply trading for more efficient trips, maybe increasing days worked by 1. We have 13 bid periods, multiply 1040 (80 x 13) x third year pay of $187/hr, that is $194,500. This is basically my BASE PAY!! And not working hard AT ALL!!

2) I won’t count per diem, because IT IS NOT INCOME!! However, our Per Diem is the HIGHEST in the industry at $2.65/hr AND we also get crew meals (not as many as NJ).

3) Brown ALWAYS runs lean, that is the way they operate. Our JA uncovered trips (junior assigned) our completely voluntary. In fact, you can pick up the phone, ask what trip it is and no thank you with ZERO repercussions. They get paid at 150%. I can EASILY get one every month (that is what I average), could most definitely pick up more but don’t want to work that hard. Typically pick up a turn valued at 6 hours, so $187 x 6 x 150% = $1,683 x 13 = $20k per year.

4) International override at $4.50/hr. At 400 hrs/year, another $1,800.

5) Unlike NJ, we do get paid for homestudy/DBL. The average is 10 hours per year. $1,870.

6) ANYTIME we get rerouted or a trip gets changed, it generates a 2 hour premium. I average about 10 changes per year. Another 20 hours. $3,740. (This is NOT what we call Late Arrival Pay, which is like an after midnight. I had 2 of those but won’t count them).

So,

$194,500 +
$ 20,000 +
$ 1,800 +
$ 1,870 +
$ 3,740

Roughly $222,000

Again, this is working almost the bare minimum, just one, maybe two extra days per month. Many guys who bust their butts make significantly more. Don’t want to do that.

Originally Posted by Retractable

See.

You can’t even do that. Everyone would see you didn’t make as good of a move as you claim.

Originally Posted by Retractable

Brown, FedEx and Delta... brother I totally get it. There’s great money to be made there and good for you.

You aren’t the self appointed AntiNetJets spokesperson however.

I want to hear from HIM particularly. He can put his money where his mouth is.

Originally Posted by Balloons

Yes. That’s exactly why SWA lowered their hogging minimums. I heard it from the bourses mouth at a job fair. The amount of people willing to pay for a type dried up, and they had a huge problem of people being hired, then leaving to the top three. Lowering minimums and qualifications increases the probability of an applicant staying longer. If you an get an employee to stay 3 years, the chances of them leaving go down immensely. I know a couple really low time guys who got on at SWA, also several without degrees.

Lowering minimums is ONLY to combat current or projected problems with hiring and attrition of new hires, period.

Originally Posted by Shenzi105

I know 15,000+ Regional pilots who want (WANT) to go to SWA, of those at least half are Captains, of these at least half have an average of 7000 TT. There is no way, at all, zero chance, that SWA has struggled to hire, at anytime in the last 20 years. I know guys who have been at the Regionals for 15-16 years, with all the mins needed who are desperately trying to get hired at SWA, B6 or NK. There is no way they had to reduce their mins. What's on paper when it comes to minimums means absolutely nothing except at the Regionals and the ACMI which are the only ones desperate to hire as many as they can, at the minimum possible.

Originally Posted by C2078

And for the record, I am NOT Anti Netjets. I owe MUCH to my 15+ years there, grateful for providing my family stability for a decade plus when everything around was collapsing, as we were so close to when we became the ATM for our Owners!! Simply wanted to present factual numbers. Oh, and Santulli tried very hard to not layoff anyone, he wasn’t a saint by any means, but he definitely cared!!

I will say this. I sincerely doubt you can get to these numbers at Alaska, Frontier, JB, Spirit, heck even AA and MAYBE even Southwest under current situation. Delta and United could get close. I would have to run through similar basic analysis for each, way too lazy to do 😬. But again, the Alaska gent seems to be happy, I say just be happy, no need to bash anyone. People can clearly see the ra ra types (sorry Retractable, FlyLow22 that includes you).

I remember when Kiick D was about to leave NJ for Spirit, so close to upgrade. Many thought he was nuts. But last time I spoke to him he was very happy with his decision. He had his reasons. And he is probably a year out for upgrade (or sooner). Everyone has their reasons. I did not see myself hauling bags, freezing my butt off, cleaning planes (do too much cleaning at home &#128556, long days, short layovers at 55+. For me personally that was simply not attractive. I like driving to work, being home many more nights every month, the Jumpseating and passes, etc. This may not appeal to everyone. To each his own is the key phrase!!

Originally Posted by IamGroot

That would be Balloons or whatever screen name he’s hiding behind this week. He just can’t quit us. It’s so BrokeBackish.

Originally Posted by C2078

Now, compare with NJ.

1) Base pay 7/7 small cabin capped out year 14 is $172,500. That’s STILL working about 2 more days per month, but let’s call it even.

2) 4% longevity bonus: $6,900.

3) Holiday, I averaged 4 per year, so round up to $6,000.

4) OT. NEVER made more than about $6k, but let’s say $7k.

5) FDP. On 7/7, you work 20 tours per year IF you don’t call in sick. A fair average is 25 hours of flying per tour considering the occasional MX, fatigue, etc. So 25 - 12 = 13 hrs/FDP per tour x 20 = 260 FDP per year, heck round up to 300. $35,400. BUT, have to compare Apples to Apples. Only 66% goes into your pocket, 33% to 401k, which gets blown away by 12% DC from Brown, so will only count the 66%. $24,000.

6) Not counting the occasional after midnight to keep comparison even.

$172,500 +
$ 6,900 +
$ 6,000 +
$ 7,000 +
$24,000

Roughly $217,000.

Again, keep in mind this is a TOPPED OUT CAPTAIN!! (Small cabin). ANY FO comparison only gets worse. And being so new at Brown, I continue to get pay increases until year 15, and not even throwing Captain upgrade (should be another 3-4 years) into the mix because at $320/hr that puts this argument completely to shame.

So Mr. 251, FlowLow22, Retractable, the math is pretty clear.