You weren't a new hire in 2015, you were coming back from furlough. New hire classes were pumped up with lots of talk, and I totally get it, they all believed it and thought it was coming so it wasn't a purposeful lie or anything. It just didn't pan out the way they thought...

Did any new hires bother to reflect on the fact that the company was coming off furlough, had no major airframe orders in, and a very high PIC/SIC ratio when they hired on?

Yet you still feel the need to come back and crap on NJs?! Let it go man, let it go...

Use some of that Captain money to buy a hobby or something.

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Mainline Hiring
 

We don’t have any 10 year upgrades because it’s not 2025. No one knows yet when the 2015 class will upgrade. NJA still has to get through the 2008 seniority group first. NJA did not hire from Dec 2008-Dec 2014. I don’t count the one person in 2009 since he’s in management.

We won’t know actual upgrade times post furlough because we are not there yet. But they will reduce automatically by 6 years when we get to the 2015 new hires.

You got here in 2015 when we were under a terrible CEO whom turned everyone against each other and was eventually fired. You never stuck it out to see the great company we have evolved to.

You left for greener grass or so you thought, yet keep coming back to this one. You sat at home for a year while the taxpayers paid for your at home staycation, yet still feel the need to come back here. You’ve finally upgraded at a part 121 airline, yet still come back here.

You don’t seem to be happy at the greener grass based on your other posts over there. Will you ever be happy? The grass is only greener where you water it. Find your grass to water. It’s clearly not here.


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Math seems a bit hard for you so I will help. If a 2008 hire hasn't upgraded yet, then you are absolutely right, you don't have 10 ear upgrades. You have 13 year upgrades and climbing. If somebody hired in 2008 waits 13 years to upgrade, then the upgrade took 13 years. You don't get to dismiss the time during furloughs to somehow not count towards current upgrade times. Will those times drop when you get though the gap? Absolutely! But you can only go on the DOH of the junior CA to gauge upgrade times. This is how it is done literally EVERYWHERE else. 2015 hires had no furlough, no gap, nothing. My 2015 classmates are still several hundred pilots away from upgrading. Will they upgrade at the 10 YOS mark? Maybe, probably!

I know any realistic talk of NJA cuts to your core so I apologize for upsetting you. I know you needed the math lesson, do I need to explain how public forums work as well?

Crapping on NJA? By saying I wish them the best? lol. You guys get too emotionally wrapped up the place you work.

Phenoms were coming on board like candy in 2015. And there is still a high PIC/SIC ratio.

Don't try to save face now. Anybody can do a search to see how much you "wish" them the best. What you don't realize is that there are plenty of NJ alumni that don't share your view. But keep coming back, waving your "look at me" flag. That fourth stripe doesn't make a person worthy. Just means their seniority number was next.

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Yes, and many of the crewmembers staffing the fleet were displaced to it as we retired older airframes. The Phenoms were modernizing the fleet and not necessarily for growth. Due diligence on the part of a new hire in learning what is actually happening at a company is crucial to avoiding unrealistic expectations. I'm sure we can look back here on APC to find out if any new hires in the 2015 time frame were actually expecting a 2-3 year upgrade.

The high PIC/SIC ratio is a good thing for the company and pilots. The low pilot/airframe ratio means pairing issues if we had rank ratios like the legacy carriers, and PIC/PIC pairings relieve the need for more bodies.

Getting emotionally wrapped up in one’s company is something called pride. Especially since the pilot group has been instrumental in securing one heck of a CBA and bringing this company to the level it’s at now in the 22 years I’ve been here. Just flew with an FO last tour on the CC72 schedule who is north of $200k/yr in the large cabin. He has no reason nor desire to upgrade into a small cabin at this point even though his seniority would hold an upgrade bid.

Finally, anyone in this industry who believes “promises” made during recruitment/hiring is naive at best. I can think of other descriptions that would fit better though.