MinRest

Simply being ok with another IBB is the first problem. The pilot group needs to be unified in wanting full section 6 negotiations. It isn't the unions job to fix hiring issues, but if the pilot group wants meaningful change, another IBB probably isn't going to cut it.

ASACapt

I agree. Dec 2021 looked a LOT different than Dec 2022 for me by means of scheduling, QOL, FDP and extended days. The only way I can get an extended day is through VAWD. My last Vector approved extended day was in April. I had 2 vacations in 2022 I tried to extend on and not a single taker.

I think the IBB had to already have been here and should’ve taken effect in Dec 2022 attract and retain talent. If we start negotiating in April 2023 for pay rates that don’t take effect until Dec 2023, then Netjets has missed the boat. April next year is too far from now with this dynamically changing pilot market.

A lot of new hires I’ve been flying with have it in their mind that we are getting a new contract in April 2023. I then query how they heard that and inform them how an IBB works which extends the current contract. The reaction usually is “I’m not waiting until Dec 2023”.

I honestly don’t think Netjets currently realizes how far behind the hiring curve they are right now without something in already in place to attract new pilots.

ASACapt

Section 6 can’t happen until this current contract expires in 2026 or 2029. I can’t remember when this current contract expires with and without the extension, but it will be years before section 6 can happen.

IBBs will have to be voted down by the pilot group to send a clear message to management. I don’t have a lot of faith that will happen since we have so many pilots that will vote yes to anything just for outdated the signing bonus.


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MinRest

That is a real bummer. The union is basically powerless because they chose to be, and now management holds all the cards. It will be up to them to give the pilot group what they think will be enough for retention and attracting new hires.

Das Auto

The union is powerless? No, I don't think so. Management can hold all the cards they want, but if compensation isn't increased significantly for the lower ranks, they're going to have lots of shiny new planes sitting idle and lots of Captain on Captain flying. That will have more to do with the laws of supply and demand than the power of negotiation.

MinRest

All the more reason that NJASAP doesn't hold any ace cards. Company can simply extend at their discretion, these IBBs. If the company doesn't want to position themselves in such a way as to remain competitive, they simply don't have to and NJASAP has basically zero power to do anything. The IBBs can be voted down and the company can simply extend status quo, right? If that is correct ( I am trying to make sure I understand that correctly) then NJASAP is indeed in fact, powerless to fix the issues at hand. Management will be the one to make the moves, if any.

Das Auto

What would you do if you were in charge? Stays quo, watch new aircraft deliveries arrive with no F.O.s to fly them just to stick it to the union? That would be like refusing to take fuel because jet A is way too expensive. I think they're smart enough to realize that, regardless of what the union thinks.

By the way, I am very impressed with NJASAP. I used to resent paying my dues to ALPA in a previous life, especially when I was earning 19k a year and paying for my own uniform. The big pay raises the regionals are seeing now is no thanks to those guys, but I'm sure they'll take the credit in their monthly brag mag.

This is not the first rodeo for NJASAP, but from the perspective of wanting to see the company continue to grow and replenish the ranks, it's time to bust out the pencils and calculators.

MinRest

If I were in charge I wouldn't have given the company the power to extend and play this IBB game. I think that has been detrimental and it is proving so as the years go on. I agree with your points that it's time, actually passed the time for change but if management is putting their heads in the sand, you basically have to stand by and watch the disaster burn. NJASAP is a great union overall but they without a doubt gave up power and now they find themselves in the passive seat while management takes the wheel . I watched the mascara CEO just about crush the will of the pilot group when I was a new hire. If there are enough executives that don't see a true need for real improvement, things will get worse before they get better. The million dollar question is how bad does it have to get before people are replaced and real change takes place.

To comment on ALPA. ALPA is the giant umbrella that covers 99% of the airline industry in the U.S. but really, each airlines union is different and varies greatly and is only as strong as its NC, MEC and pilot group and therefore is very individualistic . We are watching examples of strong ALPA MECs and NCs and at the same time, we are watching utter disasters. It is hard to wrap ALPA into one giant union.

jtf560

So far the IBBs/ IBIs are a huge success. The pilot group has made way more money than we ever would have if we had only opted for section 6. Each time we do one and extend the contract we are taking a risk that we won't get another IBI in a reasonable amount of time and it is possible that we come to regret it, but if we had never done the 2018 or 2020 versions, we would probably just now be coming into a new contract and we wouldn't have made the hundreds of thousands per person extra that have been made since the 2018 contract with the FDP. Maybe we will get the hose and the company stagnates or maybe we get another boost. Either way, I am happy with the money I've made that I wouldn't have without the last 2 contracts.

MinRest

It is hard for me to argue against that, seeing as the gains were tangible but I do believe that if the hard work would have been put into section 6, proper pay and other section gains could have been achieved, it is just much harder work. But what is proper pay? NJA is too unique to really base its pay on any other company which makes it really hard. Honestly, who is to say whether NJA pilots are under or overpaid? Do you go by NBAA salary ranges? Do you take narrowbody airline rates? I said it years ago that FDP is great until it dries up. I thought it would just simply go away, and not manifest its self as only being lucrative with certain fleets, but in a way that is rearing its ugly head. True pay rate increases would have prevented this. It also would have not masked the schedule practices that simply threw money at the abuse and made it sting a little bit less. Real pay rate increases would have laid a much better foundation for negotiations now.