Richmond454

thoughts on how the new Delta numbers will effect NetJets negotiation strategy

MinRest

I honestly don't think airline contracts really play into NJA negotiating until NJA can't hire or keep pilots. FDP came at a time when classes weren't being filled and attrition was through the roof. NJA won't see a gain until that happens again.

jtf560

I think it is adding more weight to the side of the scale for the regionals when new pilots are trying to decide which to choose. I do think the fractionals were already hosed here, but as all the majors get their contracts, it just gets harder and harder for the fractional to recruit. I guess it is possible that it raises the upper level of what the union can negotiate also. Delta will be pushing the others to up their B funds to 18% and hopefully that pushes NetJets to offer something better there also. Having to fund it through FDP is pathetic.

Honestly, the only way we get anything at NetJets is when they can't hire and retain whatever the magic number is for the beancounters to allow a negotiation. I just hope it is before a possible recession and/ or before the giant wait list dries up and the curent owners bail out. Current owners are already bailing out from what I have heard.

David Puddy

Add to this the fact that many new hires are bidding Capt during their first year of probation at Delta. I met a former Endeavor CRJ Capt who was just awarded a 737 Capt slot during his first year. Less than 1 year to Captain? Crazy times.

MinRest

Remember 2015 when NJASAP was screaming from the roof tops that NetJets was basically an airline and thus the pilots should be paid like airline pilots? Then the CBA came and not another word comparing airlines to NJA was uttered. NJA's business model (with good reason) has been to distance its self from the airline industry. I think that is going to make it harder and harder to have NJASAP leverage the airline industry to get better pay and benefits. I agree, that management will only come to the table to change it willingly when they can't staff the flying and owners get ****ed, but that component was really fixed to the company's favor with FDP. The metal started moving instantly and from talking to a buddy in the know, fatigue calls haven't reached pre FDP numbers yet (although now they are starting to get closer to pre FDP fatigue calls).

I always felt that a big attraction to NJA from an owners standpoint, was the level of training and experience of the pilot group. That was largely due to the vast majority of pilots being airline refugees. Those days are over, and NJA is soon going to have to hire R-ATPs to staff class like everyone else is. It's just the reality of the industry right now. Doesn't surprise me that owners might be bailing. The waitlist combined with the power experience pilot group being hired might have owners not specifically looking to NJA. I could be wrong on that but I would love to hear the reason that owners are bailing.

PilotodeFE

I mean the latest numbers from sales do not indicate any kind of major exodus of owners, like at all. I have no clue who you hear this from but all you have to do is open your email once in a while or browse JetStream lol.

jtf560

I never said it was a big exodus, at least not yet. I do know one big owner who recently left the Global program. The person I spoke with was told by him that he was sick of the poor service. This will happen more and more if they keep beating the <r@p out of the Globals doing so many extra flights through upgrades and letting NJE use and abuse the fleet whenever they have any time to do it while the birds are in Europe. All the extra legs are leading to more AOGs, often right before the Global owner's big flights. In years past scheduling would back off when the AOGs started adding up and then maybe 6 or 9 months later they would forget why they weren't allowed to do so many upgrades. This time the cycle hasn't backed off since it started about a year and a half ago. They better get the new birds online quickly to make up for some of the reliability issues. The problem is they are already fully sold and we are going to have a seriously hard time staffing them with over half the SICs getting ready to upgrade within months of coming on line in the Globals. There is a serious melt down that is only starting and going to get far worse.

HeavyD

Our new hires make 30% less in base pay than a new hire makes at Mesa, Horizon etc. The soft money that both the company and the union were pushing at these expos isn't materializing. This is coming directly from the probationary pilots I have flown with this year. The union can talk up IBB's all they want. They have been nothing but band aid fixes for the company.

Das Auto

What a difference a year makes. The pendulum has indeed swung from one extreme to the other. This time last year there were as many extended days paid at 2.5x as you wanted and FDP was plentiful. All the while the regionals still paid less and sucked more.

Fast forward to today, extended days are unicorns, FDP has dried up (at least in my fleet) and the regionals are offering unheard of financial incentives and flow through programs. I just read that Air Wisconsin is offering a $150,000 signing bonus!

There has to be massive improvement in the next IBB, especially for the new hires and junior first officers. These are the people who can make or break the growth ambitions of the company. Attract and retain!

HeavyD

I agree with you. The first hurdle we have is if we have another IBB, the same actors are still at the negotiating table on both sides. The same ones that negotiated the previous three agreements. The only thing Berkshire hates more than losing money is paying its employees.