captjns

Don't forget the Speedos. With pride, stand up when asked to rise.

atlphx

Pending the new contract, does anyone forsee hiring minimums being raised?

Also, is it possible to go through the interview process without ATP/CTP completed and complete the course after receiving a CJO prior to class?

BizJetWannaBe

FYI for anyone with a lot of SIC time in Citation CJ or other single pilot certified aircraft, NJ does not honor this time unless your current companies OP spec requires two pilots per the FAA. Not NJ’s fault, but that cut about 400 hours off my time that I didn’t know I technically couldn’t log until I was in the interview. I still met the R-ATP mins but they definitely expressed concern over my CJ time.

The sim didn’t go well either. Was told to reapply in 6 months. Sure felt like a punch in the gut.

Swedepilut

No

No

And adding 10 characters

Swedepilut

Apply again in 6 months. The company likes to see dedication.

Contrary to the union message no everyone gets hired.

followingdreams

Always wondered about this.....Although they are single pilot aircraft, if the capatin doesnt have a single pilot type, then the SIC would be a required crew memeber and it should be able to be counted. Were the CAs single pilot typed?

BizJetWannaBe

yes, all but one. Our OP spec where I’m at now doesn’t require two pilots but our insurance does. That doesn’t supersede the FAAs ruling though unfortunately. However, I won’t be removing it from my logbook because it would turn it into a complete disaster and As far as I (and the captains) were concerned, I was a required crew member and exercised SIC privileges. When asked again, I’ll definitely make it known (again) that it may not be properly logged, but I still gained a significant amount of experience from that time. Been to dang near every airport up and down the east coast in that plane.

Thing is, I didn’t know I technically couldn’t log that time, and no one told me till my interview…

I do know for a fact though that some companies will count that time and some don’t.

followingdreams

Yeah, Insurance doesnt determine "loggable time" however I had the same thing flying about 50 hours in a single pilot jet. I logged the time however I made sure that without it, I would still meet ATP mins. It did give me something to talk about in the interview and I would say 1500 hrs + 50 turbine "experience" is better than someone with just 1550 hours in mostly a piston single. As long as you meet ATP mins, the hours matter less. My second employer didnt even do a logbook review, Im assuming because I had my ATP and that was their mins to get hired.

TeamSasquatch

Maybe change how you approach this…

The reality is, if you’re gonna apply for an ATP, just like any other rating, you need to meet the minimum experience requirements.

14 cfr 61.51 covers logging flight time. Just a few pages later we see what it takes to get an ATP. Add in some interpretive letters from the FAA and you’ll find lots of relevant info.

Suggesting that some companies count the time and some don’t is a bit misleading. You have to meet that minimum requirements for the ATP. But, what is competitive? Some companies may consider this experience competitive, but it doesn’t meet the requirements for a rating.

You’re not alone, plenty of people have been turned away from Netjets, SkyWest, etc… Anyone that’s needing to issue an ATP with their training curriculum, has been turning these people away for years. Whether it’s a CJ, King Air, 208…. I believe these factors were a large factor in the PDP program that is now in place for single pilot aircraft.

Really, the point that I hope you get out of this is that you can’t go around blaming other people for not knowing the rules. Use it as a good way to embrace what you’re learning.

80knotsV1rotate

No one is going to honor that time. You're merely a passenger sitting in the right seat of a single pilot jet unless your operator has A015 in their OpSpecs, or you were under a PDP. Insurance requirements don't matter.

"No one told me I couldn't log that" is a bull**** excuse. You're supposed to be a professional pilot. That means knowing the regs. What would you say if someone showed up with 500 hours of Cessna 172 SIC time in their logbook? Because that's essentially what you did.