Ewfflyer

Pretty much said, I'm just posting to add my support of it. Don't Do It!

AtlCSIP

If you have to pay for something, pay for something useful. If I had $20,000 and needed the time, I would pay for a CFI, CFII, MEI and an small airplane with an N number that burns about 4 gph! Then instruct as much as possible, and go fly an hour whenever I have 18 or 20 bucks!

donkedPilot

well said, i agree... i have been working as a CFI in texas for about a year and a half. havent had any movent at our school in a while, and recent graduates and furloughs alike constantly come in looking for work. we cant hire unless someone quits (which is unlikely still), therefore these guys offer their services for less. devaluing and undercutting. there is another 135 company out of the dallas area GTAAir.com that offers a pay-for-time building program.
i've heard a few students talk about going up there and getting even farther in debt... I imagine those goon companies make their PICs stay currents as MEIs so they can log it as instruction also. but nevertheless, i give them the same lecture

jedinein

Ops Specs trump Part 61. In the case of Ops Specs, they are the regs for that operator and, gasp!, FAA Approved, thus the single pilot aeroplane becomes a two pilot aeroplane. The FAA treats it no differently than 600 RVR takeoff mins, as gasp!, those FAA Approved mins are lower than what part 91 allows.

OMFG, regulations might be different for a part 121 or 135 operator, whoda thought that?

Oldog

Setting aside the histrionics from the folks who hate the pay-for-SIC-time concept, experience and MEL PIC time gained as an CFI-AME will be more valuable in the long run. But to do career-dignificant ME instruction, you'll need CFI-IA qualifications.

PilotGuy69

FYI to the person who recommended Key Lime Air.... Key Lime Air's FO program is not loggable time. Running cargo in a Metroliner as an SIC does not fit the bill for logging flight time. If you look at their website, you will never see the word loggable. But be warned that by telephone, they may tell you otherwise, to mislead you and get your money. All you gain is experience and cannot log a single hour. (FAR 61.51(f)).

PilotGuy69

Yes Jedinein, the Ops Specs become part of the FAR's for that particular airline, but don't mislead the reader. Ask any FAA inspector with a brain and you will find that in the example I meant to point out, flying cargo (the operation) in an aircraft that does not require more than one pilot (by it's complexity - like the metroliner) is not loggable flight time. Even if the OpSpecs may have a takeoff minimum exception where under rare and certain circumstances the airline is obligated to fly two pilots on that very paticular flight. But the actual conditions must meet the particular OpSpec for the time to be loggable by the SIC.

I say, any pilot looking to build time at substantial cost, DO YOUR RESEARCH, be 100% sure your time is loggable or burn your money instead. Call the POI (Principal Operations Inspector) for the company you plan on doing time building and ask them.

PilotGuy69

There are many scams out there. Be cautious!!. You're trying to build time, correct? Make sure the time is legally loggable. Understand FAR 61.51(f). Call the FDSO and speak with the POI about the paticular company you'll be flying for. Make sure you will be a required crewmember on the flights or the time does not count and cannot go in your logbook.

The key is: Does the operation require two pilots? Cargo is typically a no, passenger operations is typically a yes. Or, does the aircrafts complexity require two pilots? A C172 is a no, a B747 is a yes.

I would agree with your instructor, unless you're very rich, do your timebuilding as a CFI, the airlines prefer that anyway. Goodluck!

WmuGrad07

Cry me a river. I got hired at a 121 company only to then have my class cancelled. I quit a perfectly good job to go to the airlines and then I had to get my cfi and instruct. Now I'm not instructing but still in a 172. You've got to build time somehow and right now it doesn't sound like you'll be doing it at the airlines. Specially with how much PIC time you have. You've got to get it out of your head that you're too good for instructing, because if you think you are now that you've flown a jet I'll remind you there are many other people willing to take the job you don't want with more time than you.

You don't even have enough time to do a 135 op so how have you even put in your dues to aviation as everyone says. Imagine if airlines didn't hire till 2500 hrs you wouldn't even have your types and you wouldn't be wining now. I don't even know what to say to you. It sounds like you haven't tried much of anything besides the airlines.

As far as the pft thing for 250 hrs, even if you have 500 tt and 250 me turbine you'll still have a hard time competing against said guy above with two types and 1150. GL

IC ALL

"Ops Specs become part of the FAR's for that particular airline, but don't mislead the reader."

Who's misleading the reader? I have no contacts at Key Lime, but my sources at Amflight say there have been no changes to their "PFT" scheme, which EagleJet sells.

PilotGuy69 offers no proof of his claims other than "contact the FAA". He'll need to do better than that here to prove his opinion is a fact.

Go over to an Amflight thread and ask them if their ride along F/O's can log the time? If they back Pilotguy up, then I might give his opinion a shred of credibility. But until then, I simply think he's wrong and has shown no proof for his claims.

I'm no fan of PFT schemes as a substitute for traditional methods of time building. But I think a small amount of this type of experience could be beneficial in some circumstances if the person can afford it without going into debt. In any case, there has never been any doubt in my mind that Amflight figured out an FAA approved way to make the time legal to log. Otherwise, the program would be useless.