Part 135 Insurance Minimums
06-22-2009 | 11:53 AM
#11
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 33
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From: FA-20 CA
Wondering if you folks think I'll have trouble getting insured at just a little over 1500tt and close to 900 multi 300+ of which is in a Saab? Soon to be furloughed and was lining up a navajo maybe a cheyene gig. Would start out as 91 flying the owner around but I'm sure we would like to do some charter work to defer some of the costs.
Also looking at starting pay at 50K, good, bad, fair? I suppose it will depend on how much he has me away from home.
Also looking at starting pay at 50K, good, bad, fair? I suppose it will depend on how much he has me away from home.
You haven't provided sufficient details for me to say if 50k is good or not. I will say if it is a average 91 gig; 50k to start sounds pretty good for a PA-31.
06-22-2009 | 04:22 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 136
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You don't know anything about insurance if you think that a broker can cut you a break on his commission. Rebating is absolutely, 100%, nonnegotiable, huge fine illegal.
07-01-2009 | 10:59 AM
#13
New Hire
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
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Rebating and negotiated commission rates are totally different.
The broker earns the commission from the insurance company, the usual commission rate on 91 & 135 policies is 15% - however the broker can negotiate the commission down or even remove it completley and charge a negotiated fee from the client.
Rebating is when the broker shares a portion of the commission earned with the client - very illegal - except in Florida, for some strange reason.
The time in the aircraft look good, so I see no problem finding coverage, the insurance carrier will demand that you complete school in M+M prior to flight ops.
The broker earns the commission from the insurance company, the usual commission rate on 91 & 135 policies is 15% - however the broker can negotiate the commission down or even remove it completley and charge a negotiated fee from the client.
Rebating is when the broker shares a portion of the commission earned with the client - very illegal - except in Florida, for some strange reason.
The time in the aircraft look good, so I see no problem finding coverage, the insurance carrier will demand that you complete school in M+M prior to flight ops.
07-01-2009 | 11:05 AM
#14
New Hire
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
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I am paying around 14000 for our panther navajo which includes 400k hull insurance 1mill/100,000 liability. I have a pretty good broker if you would like more info on him pm me. A lot of other companies I have talked to are around 15-17k. Time in type is what they really like. I think our open pilot policy is 2000tt 100 in type and I don't remember the multi requirement. The less experience you have the higher the premium and they will probably require some sort of yearly school like flight safety or your 135 training program can suffice if they approve it.
$14,000 total premium, with a $1 MM limit SUB LIMITED to $100,000 per pax seat, is no where near a good deal.
If your running 135 ops and have paying pax in the back, they only have $100 K of coverage each, that'll see you one week in court.
The rule of thumb is $5 MM per pax seat for a N reg aircraft, I know that can't always be acheived due to type of aircraft & ops. but more insurance is available and should be purchased.
07-01-2009 | 12:43 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2008
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Billy like I have said in the location we are operating that is what people are typically paying if not more. That being said 5mill/pax on a Navajo is a lot of coverage and is unheard of by any 135 operator operating piston aircraft in FL. By the way liability insurance isn't that expensive in comparison to what the hull costs on a piston airplane. It represents only 1/3 of that premium the rest is for the hull. In a turbine it is usually 1% of the value for a hull premium but this is simply not true for a piston.
Correction on my quote from before our hull is covered at 460k not 400k.
Correction on my quote from before our hull is covered at 460k not 400k.
07-06-2009 | 07:11 PM
#16
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,832
Likes: 5
From: 737 Left
The ability to get insured
This thread is about the ABILITY to get insured and the costs associated with that, not about whose broker is better or who struggles with a superiority complex.
I got insured on a Navajo with about 1800 hours total time, 180 hours multi, successful completion of the Part 135 training program, and successful completion of the checkride with our POI. No minimum time in type. Don't know the cost.
I got insured on a Navajo with about 1800 hours total time, 180 hours multi, successful completion of the Part 135 training program, and successful completion of the checkride with our POI. No minimum time in type. Don't know the cost.
07-17-2009 | 11:41 AM
#17
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
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From: June Bug SIC
I went through a similar situation. Owner bought a Baron Part 91 and I was in charge of finding insurance with very low time and no time in type. Underwriters initially wanted the following:
1) Simcom or FSI Initial Course
2) 15 Hours Dual before Solo
3) 50-100 (Can't remember exactly) before carrying pax
4) $8,000 per year premium (this included 200k hull, 1 million liability
After flying the plane for a few months and accruing 150+ hours in type, all requirements dropped and premium $4300 per year.
1) Simcom or FSI Initial Course
2) 15 Hours Dual before Solo
3) 50-100 (Can't remember exactly) before carrying pax
4) $8,000 per year premium (this included 200k hull, 1 million liability
After flying the plane for a few months and accruing 150+ hours in type, all requirements dropped and premium $4300 per year.
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