EFIS COMP MON

I work for a 135 charter operator with a fleet of both jets and turboprops. The company seems to think that it is perfectly legal to use either (A) pilots that are 135 qualified within the company, but are NOT qualified on the specific airplane they are being assigned to fly as a "right-seater" (for instance, prop guys that are not trained on the jets). Or, (B) using a contract pilot (who isn't trained in the aircraft, or even 135 qualified). Those in charge realize they're operating in the gray area, so they have convinced themselves it's legal if the "right-seater" is listed, not as a crew member, but as a "passenger".

I've turned down every assignment as such, and have told them that this is not legal (as I'm not rated or qualified in the aircraft, and obviously am not just a normal "passenger"). However, I seem to be one of the minority in putting my foot down. Other pilots within the company seem to think this is fine (anything to justify getting paid!) and the non-trained/non-current contract guys are seemingly lining out the door to do these trips.

Are there others on this forum that have faced this type of situation? Although the ones in charge with my company seem to believe that FAA Letters of Legal Interpretation are mostly bogus, are there any that address this issue? I'm trying to basically defend myself in not wanting to be a part of these type of trips, so I'm looking for some ammunition when they, assumingly, threaten my job for taking this stance.

Thanks for your time and replies

SIUav8er

Easy, show your DO or CP this little reg. 135.293

EFIS COMP MON

Totally agree...it SHOULD be that easy. However, the fleet that the company has are single pilot airplanes (props and small jets whereby we can either fly them as single pilot, or can get single pilot exemptions). We hardly ever fly single pilot, and 135 trips are crewed with two pilots either because it's required under 135, or clients and/or insurance mandates it.

Thus, the company basically uses the logic that as long as the PIC is legal, the right-seater can be anyone (and since they're listed as a "passenger", versus an SIC on the manifest, they're not a crew member). Apparently, they learned this trick by talking to other 135 shops that do it all the time.

SIUav8er

Ah ha! Well in that case, your co-pilots arent required crew and are just that: "sand bags" or right seat ballast. They're either required, or they're not. If they are required, they must be trained and checked on each type they fly in accordance with 135.293.
If theye not required crew (ie auto pilot in leiu of SIC) there is no training and checking required and the company can put you there to make the customers happy. At least that's my understanding.

dapper993

If you are truly sitting to be paid in the right seat as a passenger (safety pilot) for an aircraft that is single pilot and the certificate holder is issued A015 for Autopilot in lieu of SIC your company is correct and they are not in violation of any regulation by doing so INMHO. Many brokers/ passengers will not charter aircraft with one pilot on board for the fear that if that pilot becomes incapacitated what are they to do. Because of this many companies put a contract pilot in the right seat to make the customer comfortable/happy.

That being said this is where most of those companies are in violation...

Are they actually marketing the trip as a qualified 2 man crew? In addition the moment the guy in the right seat keys a mike, reads a checklist for the PF, pushes a button, listens to an ATIS on the behalf of the pilot the company, PIC and Right Seater are in violation of 135.95 and 135.115.

You are correct this is a very grey area because most will do the above. Will the right seater really sit there purely to keep the pilot awake with good conversation or are they expected to do something. However if you sit in the right seat and do nothing other than sit there on an aircraft with no more than 8 passenger seats not including a crewmember seat show me which FAA regulation you are violating.

Walkeraviator

Remind the guys taking teh trips in the right seat that NONE of the time is loggable and you wont see as many guys taking the trips.

dapper993

Personally if someone wants to pay me to sit there and do nothing and they pay me my daily rate (the same rate that I would charge if I was flying) who cares if the time is loggable. I wouldn't make a career doing this but it would be nice supplemental income.

topprospect16

And thus the problems insue with the state of this industry.

USMCFLYR

Usually the problem is
DOING SOMETHING WITHOUT GETTING PAID
- not
GETTING PAID FOR DOING NOTHING

USMCFLYR

dapper993

I agree with USMC my understanding of the problem with this industry is people that value the time they log as compensation hence don't really care what they get paid. Or think that this job is so fun they will do it for 18k a year...

I am not saying this at all....Ie. if I value my time at x/day, which is within or above industry standards who cares whether I talk on the radio and raise the gear handle? If you want to pay me to sit there to keep the aircraft in CG I don't care as long as I get paid X.

I was just responding to Walker's comment. Some of us don't care about logging time its about making some extra cash.

Personally this situation does not apply to me as I fly for an individual I am paid salary. But I don't see anything wrong with someone doing this.