Southern Airways Express
08-04-2023, 06:16 AM
#511
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by captjns
https://apple.news/AcVf8D-d0R9eTFTjjL7wQEw
Interesting read…. 19 lawsuits, filed in recent days, to recover training costs.
I don’t know what’s more pitiful… the company paying such low wages??? or the pilots who took employment with this operation.
Interesting read…. 19 lawsuits, filed in recent days, to recover training costs.
I don’t know what’s more pitiful… the company paying such low wages??? or the pilots who took employment with this operation.
10-18-2023, 12:07 PM
#512
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by rogerabbit
The flying is fun. I love it. But there's a lot of issues I wish I knew about before signing the $16,000 contract:
1) the company is extremely disorganized and shady. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Everything is done on a whim or they completely forget about you. It can takes days for replies from the Chief Pilot or HR of you get a reply at all. I knew a pilot from a foreign country that they threatened his work visa if he left. He was from another company that they bought and they tried dicking him around and he wasn't having it. So they threatened to get his work visa pulled. Also, the first thing everyone asked was where the bases were day 1 of ground school. They were very aloof of that and didn't tell us until the next to last day 2 weeks later.
2) the $16,000 contract isn't for a year of service like they make it sound. It's a year of service AFTER you become PIC. So for an FO like me tbag got hired with 700 hours, that's 5 months of FO flying at $18/$21 an hour (assuming I actually get to upgrade at 1200 hours)
3) pay is crap. I knew it would be, but it's much worse than I was led to believe. I get guaranteed 65 hours of pay a month. 32.5/paycheck. Problem is, I haven't been flying as much as I would like to. So I am making less than $1000/mo after Joe Biden gets his cut for Ukraine. I am on food stamps and I am literally going bankrupt. I was told my base would have crew housing, and that hasn't happened and won't happen. So now I have to pay for an apartment in my base and one at home with my wife. I don't make enough money to move my wife here.😢 Also, if you TDY, you're supposed to get $35/day for it. The problem is, the only way to get paid is to fill out an expense report and submit it which waits for approval from the Regional Chief Pilot. I have $450 I haven't been paid from February.
4) the planes are always broken. Sure they have you train on G1000 equipped EXs. But if you're mainland, prepare for 6-packs and lots of MEL stickers with no autopilot. The FAA has been snooping around our MX departments at several locations recently.
5) they will pressure you into flying into unsafe weather. But they won't call you from their recorded lines from the company. They'll call you on their personal cell phone so the conversation isn't recorded. WATCH OUT FOR THIS!
6) schedule is hectic. I was told 4 on and 4 off. Ive never had that so far. There is a lot of turnover here and I suppose that is why the schedule is so disjointed.
7) its not all bad. The other pilots have been awesome. Ramp agents range from awesome to having an attitude. Corporate has been nice albeit a bit shady.
Anyway, if you're young and just want to build time and don't have a family to take care of, this is a decent alternative to CFIing. I'm married and it has been a nightmare for me personally. I can't say either way if it's a good company or bad company. There's some good here but a lot of bad too. I am looking for work at another company that pays a livable wage because I am literally going bankrupt working here.
1) the company is extremely disorganized and shady. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Everything is done on a whim or they completely forget about you. It can takes days for replies from the Chief Pilot or HR of you get a reply at all. I knew a pilot from a foreign country that they threatened his work visa if he left. He was from another company that they bought and they tried dicking him around and he wasn't having it. So they threatened to get his work visa pulled. Also, the first thing everyone asked was where the bases were day 1 of ground school. They were very aloof of that and didn't tell us until the next to last day 2 weeks later.
2) the $16,000 contract isn't for a year of service like they make it sound. It's a year of service AFTER you become PIC. So for an FO like me tbag got hired with 700 hours, that's 5 months of FO flying at $18/$21 an hour (assuming I actually get to upgrade at 1200 hours)
3) pay is crap. I knew it would be, but it's much worse than I was led to believe. I get guaranteed 65 hours of pay a month. 32.5/paycheck. Problem is, I haven't been flying as much as I would like to. So I am making less than $1000/mo after Joe Biden gets his cut for Ukraine. I am on food stamps and I am literally going bankrupt. I was told my base would have crew housing, and that hasn't happened and won't happen. So now I have to pay for an apartment in my base and one at home with my wife. I don't make enough money to move my wife here.😢 Also, if you TDY, you're supposed to get $35/day for it. The problem is, the only way to get paid is to fill out an expense report and submit it which waits for approval from the Regional Chief Pilot. I have $450 I haven't been paid from February.
4) the planes are always broken. Sure they have you train on G1000 equipped EXs. But if you're mainland, prepare for 6-packs and lots of MEL stickers with no autopilot. The FAA has been snooping around our MX departments at several locations recently.
5) they will pressure you into flying into unsafe weather. But they won't call you from their recorded lines from the company. They'll call you on their personal cell phone so the conversation isn't recorded. WATCH OUT FOR THIS!
6) schedule is hectic. I was told 4 on and 4 off. Ive never had that so far. There is a lot of turnover here and I suppose that is why the schedule is so disjointed.
7) its not all bad. The other pilots have been awesome. Ramp agents range from awesome to having an attitude. Corporate has been nice albeit a bit shady.
Anyway, if you're young and just want to build time and don't have a family to take care of, this is a decent alternative to CFIing. I'm married and it has been a nightmare for me personally. I can't say either way if it's a good company or bad company. There's some good here but a lot of bad too. I am looking for work at another company that pays a livable wage because I am literally going bankrupt working here.
I retract everything good/semi-good I said about this company. If you are considering working for this company, DON'T DO IT! RUN! They aren't good people. I would even say Scam Little is evil. This company is full of crappy, broken down airplanes. Pay is crap, benefits are essentially non-existent. The training bond isn't work the $16,000+ that they charge you. You're literally going to sit in a redbird for a couple days, then get about 3 flights in an actual c208 before your checkride. Training is NOT worth the money they claim it is. RUN!!!
10-23-2023, 11:52 AM
#514
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Posts: 15
“The Company incurred greater than expected losses and negative cash flows from operating activities in April and May 2023 due to inefficient aircraft utilization, primarily caused by an underutilization of pilots and a shortage of maintenance personnel and critical aircraft components, which, in aggregate, have challenged the Company’s ability to serve its customers as desired and, in turn, cover expenses. Previously forecasted strategies to alleviate these challenges have been unsuccessful in the full deployment of the Company’s fleet with the Company seeing an increased cancellation rate well above historical averages and previous forecasts, particularly during the second quarter of 2023. This has resulted in an accelerated decline in revenue, coupled with increasing costs associated with rescheduling pilots and flight personnel to active service areas to mitigate the flight schedule disruptions. The Company’s success going forward is dependent on the ability to achieve a high level of aircraft and crew utilization, increase flight services and the number of passengers flown, and ready access to capital to fund operations and planned growth. “
“These factors raise substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern. The accompanying consolidated financial statements do not include any adjustments to reflect the possible future effects on the recoverability and classification of assets or the amounts and classification of liabilities that may result from the outcome of this uncertainty.”
“These factors raise substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern. The accompanying consolidated financial statements do not include any adjustments to reflect the possible future effects on the recoverability and classification of assets or the amounts and classification of liabilities that may result from the outcome of this uncertainty.”
11-25-2023, 01:57 PM
#515
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2023
Posts: 1
Hello
Originally Posted by Boeing Aviator
My two cents, as a United pilot who mentors numerous pilots. I have my own simulator business and I specialize in preparing pilots for 121/135 simulator training.
I’ve worked with a lot of older pilots (mid to late 50’s) who have been out of aviation for 10 to 30 years and or getting a late start and now taking the plunge to be full time 121 pilots. Many hope to make it to the low cost carrier level (JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier etc.) some even Legacy (AA, DAL & UAL). We at United are hiring a lot of pilots in mid 50’s and even flown with a new hire who is 61.
I’ve worked with a few pilots the last few years at Southern & Mouleke (Southern bought Mokulele, but they operate separately). I recommend these two carriers highest over any other 135 pilot jobs, why?
Two pilot regional airline, flying 6 to 8 legs a day in high density, lots of actual instrument. Hand flying multiple high speed approaches 120 to 140 KTS into class B & C busy airline airports. Southern pilots are averaging 85 plus hours a month (some as high as 100 to 120 per month). Mokulele averaging 70 to 85 hours per month or more. Most of the pilots I’ve mentored had around 800 to 1000 hours when they have gotten hired. Within 2 to 4 months they upgrade to CA at 1200 hours (135 CA mins) and as soon as they hit 1500 (regional mins) they leave for a Regional.
Southern pays I believe $12 per hour as FO (I now that sucks) and almost 70K as Captain and Mokulele is about double for FO’s but less
for CA’s.
I’ve found older pilots have a harder time getting through Regional training - big jump from a 172 to a transport category jet aircraft. Even though most Regionals have added sim sessions some as high as 12 to 15 (about half of what larger airlines give new hires) there is still a 10 to 20 percent wash out rate. Much easier transition coming from Southern (Caravan) to the regionals and they are significantly more prepared vs coming straight from flight instructing.
For the younger guys, if you can get hired as an FO for Southern or Mokulele I’d go in a NY second. Much more competitive to get on with low time vs higher time at these airlines. If you have 1000 to 1200 hours, very easy to get hired.
I flight instructed 34 years ago and there is absolutely nothing wrong with building your time this way. But in all honestly coming from the right or left seat of a caravan in a two pilot airline operation you are far more ready to successfully make the jump to a regional vs coming straight out of the flight instructor ranks.
As far as any flow through to the Regionals, heck with that. If you have 1500 hours, a Medical and a heart beat you will get hired by any regional you want. Southern or Mokulele can’t make you go to a specific regional. Say yes to whatever they say want you to when they hire you, but when you leave Southern or Mouleke then go anywhere you want.
Best of luck to all. Global pilot shortage coming to Low Cost Carriers and Legacies in 5 to 10 years. Going to be much easier to get on with Legacy then vs today (today still extremely competitive).
I’ve worked with a lot of older pilots (mid to late 50’s) who have been out of aviation for 10 to 30 years and or getting a late start and now taking the plunge to be full time 121 pilots. Many hope to make it to the low cost carrier level (JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier etc.) some even Legacy (AA, DAL & UAL). We at United are hiring a lot of pilots in mid 50’s and even flown with a new hire who is 61.
I’ve worked with a few pilots the last few years at Southern & Mouleke (Southern bought Mokulele, but they operate separately). I recommend these two carriers highest over any other 135 pilot jobs, why?
Two pilot regional airline, flying 6 to 8 legs a day in high density, lots of actual instrument. Hand flying multiple high speed approaches 120 to 140 KTS into class B & C busy airline airports. Southern pilots are averaging 85 plus hours a month (some as high as 100 to 120 per month). Mokulele averaging 70 to 85 hours per month or more. Most of the pilots I’ve mentored had around 800 to 1000 hours when they have gotten hired. Within 2 to 4 months they upgrade to CA at 1200 hours (135 CA mins) and as soon as they hit 1500 (regional mins) they leave for a Regional.
Southern pays I believe $12 per hour as FO (I now that sucks) and almost 70K as Captain and Mokulele is about double for FO’s but less
for CA’s.
I’ve found older pilots have a harder time getting through Regional training - big jump from a 172 to a transport category jet aircraft. Even though most Regionals have added sim sessions some as high as 12 to 15 (about half of what larger airlines give new hires) there is still a 10 to 20 percent wash out rate. Much easier transition coming from Southern (Caravan) to the regionals and they are significantly more prepared vs coming straight from flight instructing.
For the younger guys, if you can get hired as an FO for Southern or Mokulele I’d go in a NY second. Much more competitive to get on with low time vs higher time at these airlines. If you have 1000 to 1200 hours, very easy to get hired.
I flight instructed 34 years ago and there is absolutely nothing wrong with building your time this way. But in all honestly coming from the right or left seat of a caravan in a two pilot airline operation you are far more ready to successfully make the jump to a regional vs coming straight out of the flight instructor ranks.
As far as any flow through to the Regionals, heck with that. If you have 1500 hours, a Medical and a heart beat you will get hired by any regional you want. Southern or Mokulele can’t make you go to a specific regional. Say yes to whatever they say want you to when they hire you, but when you leave Southern or Mouleke then go anywhere you want.
Best of luck to all. Global pilot shortage coming to Low Cost Carriers and Legacies in 5 to 10 years. Going to be much easier to get on with Legacy then vs today (today still extremely competitive).
------
thank you so much for the information above
I am getting typed on the Boeing 737-800 I am 55 years old low time pilot
can you please give me any information that might help ultimately during my type rating and also I have to build hours to get a121 job
you did mention that you have your own simulator business and I specialize in preparing pilots for 121/135 simulator training. I will like to get information I am interested to get any prep training I am not sure if I am allowed to give my phone number here
I am in Oklahoma City please let me know the best way to communicate with you
best regards
11-26-2023, 10:52 AM
#516
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 154
Originally Posted by Igbokoda
------
thank you so much for the information above
I am getting typed on the Boeing 737-800 I am 55 years old low time pilot
can you please give me any information that might help ultimately during my type rating and also I have to build hours to get a121 job
you did mention that you have your own simulator business and I specialize in preparing pilots for 121/135 simulator training. I will like to get information I am interested to get any prep training I am not sure if I am allowed to give my phone number here
I am in Oklahoma City please let me know the best way to communicate with you
best regards
thank you so much for the information above
I am getting typed on the Boeing 737-800 I am 55 years old low time pilot
can you please give me any information that might help ultimately during my type rating and also I have to build hours to get a121 job
you did mention that you have your own simulator business and I specialize in preparing pilots for 121/135 simulator training. I will like to get information I am interested to get any prep training I am not sure if I am allowed to give my phone number here
I am in Oklahoma City please let me know the best way to communicate with you
best regards
11-27-2023, 12:18 PM
#517
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Posts: 15
Sounds like a different Boeing Aviator.
Here is what he wrote in January.
Why such different opinions from same person?
"Plus you risk your career flying for a bottom feeder like Southern Airways Express. Equipment and maintenance has deteriorated, management threatens pilots. If you bend mental or do anything wrong Southern management will throw you under the bus in a NY second. Company has really gone down hill last few years. Friend there was told to falsify training records, of course he didn’t.
36 year senior 777 CA here who mentors pilots and provides career counseling. Do you really want to risk your career flying for this scum bag operation? Do you want explain incidents, accident, violations or being terminated on your regional, LCC and or Legacy interviews? Something to think about."
Here is what he wrote in January.
Why such different opinions from same person?
"Plus you risk your career flying for a bottom feeder like Southern Airways Express. Equipment and maintenance has deteriorated, management threatens pilots. If you bend mental or do anything wrong Southern management will throw you under the bus in a NY second. Company has really gone down hill last few years. Friend there was told to falsify training records, of course he didn’t.
36 year senior 777 CA here who mentors pilots and provides career counseling. Do you really want to risk your career flying for this scum bag operation? Do you want explain incidents, accident, violations or being terminated on your regional, LCC and or Legacy interviews? Something to think about."
11-28-2023, 08:13 PM
#518
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by mistified
Sounds like a different Boeing Aviator.
Here is what he wrote in January.
Why such different opinions from same person?
"Plus you risk your career flying for a bottom feeder like Southern Airways Express. Equipment and maintenance has deteriorated, management threatens pilots. If you bend mental or do anything wrong Southern management will throw you under the bus in a NY second. Company has really gone down hill last few years. Friend there was told to falsify training records, of course he didn’t.
36 year senior 777 CA here who mentors pilots and provides career counseling. Do you really want to risk your career flying for this scum bag operation? Do you want explain incidents, accident, violations or being terminated on your regional, LCC and or Legacy interviews? Something to think about."
Here is what he wrote in January.
Why such different opinions from same person?
"Plus you risk your career flying for a bottom feeder like Southern Airways Express. Equipment and maintenance has deteriorated, management threatens pilots. If you bend mental or do anything wrong Southern management will throw you under the bus in a NY second. Company has really gone down hill last few years. Friend there was told to falsify training records, of course he didn’t.
36 year senior 777 CA here who mentors pilots and provides career counseling. Do you really want to risk your career flying for this scum bag operation? Do you want explain incidents, accident, violations or being terminated on your regional, LCC and or Legacy interviews? Something to think about."
11-29-2023, 08:20 AM
#519
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 736
Originally Posted by FloridaFlyboy98
Looking for new customers for his 'mentoring business'?
Wow flyboy, can’t come up with anything more original?
11-29-2023, 08:30 AM
#520
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 736
Originally Posted by mistified
Sounds like a different Boeing Aviator.
Here is what he wrote in January.
Why such different opinions from same person?
"Plus you risk your career flying for a bottom feeder like Southern Airways Express. Equipment and maintenance has deteriorated, management threatens pilots. If you bend mental or do anything wrong Southern management will throw you under the bus in a NY second. Company has really gone down hill last few years. Friend there was told to falsify training records, of course he didn’t.
36 year senior 777 CA here who mentors pilots and provides career counseling. Do you really want to risk your career flying for this scum bag operation? Do you want explain incidents, accident, violations or being terminated on your regional, LCC and or Legacy interviews? Something to think about."
Here is what he wrote in January.
Why such different opinions from same person?
"Plus you risk your career flying for a bottom feeder like Southern Airways Express. Equipment and maintenance has deteriorated, management threatens pilots. If you bend mental or do anything wrong Southern management will throw you under the bus in a NY second. Company has really gone down hill last few years. Friend there was told to falsify training records, of course he didn’t.
36 year senior 777 CA here who mentors pilots and provides career counseling. Do you really want to risk your career flying for this scum bag operation? Do you want explain incidents, accident, violations or being terminated on your regional, LCC and or Legacy interviews? Something to think about."
Fast forward to today, still have one pilot I’m friends with that works there, Southern has become a total
scum bag outfit from top to bottom. I no longer suggest that as a viable option to the pilots I mentor. Too high a risk of an incident, accident or totally unwarranted legal action against the pilot,
With regards to your question. So I’m not allowed to change my mind?
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