WheesUp/Gama
 

There is no good way to communicate at WheelsUp/Gama. You have two managers for over 300 pilots. There is no way to hear everyone's issues or give them much attention.

Except for the occasional newsletter, we get no information about the company and if we get an email, it is only when it is bad news.

The feeling is to work until you are burnt out and leave, or just accept it.

Fantastic. I don't think that by posting on here you're going to help make your place of employment better.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

I know several pilots there and they have brought issues such as the original 6 on, 3 off schedule to their management's attention. One I know has written several letters about these sorts of things and though the changes didn't happen overnight, they did change.

Why not try bringing these problems to not only your two managers, but their bosses, and while you're at it recommend possible solutions.

As they say in the military, don't come to me with a problem unless you have possible solutions to that problem.

Good luck...there are much worse places to work in the 135 world.

The one guy I know who works there loves it.

Most (not all) of the guys that I know that worked there ended up disliking it and leaving. Including me.

Get your time and get out.

What would you change?

I've worked at Gama/Wheels Up for over 2 years (King Air and Citation) and still enjoy it. It's not perfect and I agree communications could improve. However, anytime I've had something important to talk to management about it's not been a problem. It's a fairly young operation that is growing fast that tries to constantly improve. Most of the pilots I come into contact with seem to enjoy working here.

Growth can be good and bad if the right processes aren't in place... How many more King Airs and Citations being added this year? Also, what about larger airframes like the Sovereign and X at some point? I am betting some of your passengers want nonstop transcon ability...

It sounds like they are going to take another 5 or 6 King Air's by the end of the year. Hopefully 5 more XLS's also. We here rumors about larger aircraft and I expect if the management at Wheels Up is convinced their members want a larger/faster jet they'll add it to the inventory. During the 1st year we partnered with VistaJet to give the membership the option of a Global Express however it sounds like there was not enough of a demand to continue with it.

Let's face it: you will never make at a 135 operation what you can at one of the hidden gem Part 91 golden corporate gigs or at a major airline.

Having said that, there are good/bad/ugly 135 operators. GAMA is one of the better ones, though NO operation is perfect.

I hope you found greener pastures elsewhere. By walking away, you certainly have made a statement to the management there, but like another poster stated when an operation grows as quickly as this one has there is bound to be growing pains.

Hopefully management takes appropriate action before they reach the point of unsustainability.

It's got it's problems and issues no doubt, but this place has come a looooong way in a short amount of time. I can certainly see the frustrations with a certain segment of the pilot group. But overall, not that bad now, guys. It's not exactly a cakewalk job here, but it could be a lot worse. And it was..

I would get rid of Bob, Chris and Hector.

They play favorites. They got their positions by kissing upper management ***.

The upgrade to the jet should have been seniority based. Those that paid the dues the longest should have gone first. They lost a bunch of highly qualified pilots by hiring off the street and then only allowing Hector's and Chris' hand picked favorites to get the jet.

Gama does have its good points. Pay and Benefits for one.

BUT......then you have to put up with Bob, Chris and Hector. Want to upgrade to the XLS? Better learn to kiss *** really well, because seniority and experience don't count.

Time for some house cleaning?!
 

I wonder that more pilots have not made upper management aware of the antics of these 3. I know of 5 PIC qualified pilots that walked away after communications with Hector and Bob. Their inappropriate actions are bad for moral. If I was upper management they would be looking for work. Funny, nobody at Avantair has anything good to say about them as well!

From what you're saying, Wheels Up sounds like a good place provided a person can "play the game."

That doesn't sound different from many companies, really.

What is the "game?" Is it as simple as just telling the right jokes, or going to the right parties, or buying the right drinks? Or is there more to it?

It is literally kissing the right azzez. Bob, Hector and Chris. Doesn't matter if you are a good pilot or a bad pilot. Kiss those 3 azzez and you can advance rapidly at Gama.

I was there from the beginning. Before Bob was a fleet manager. Before he was let go from the corporate side. I was there when Hector was just a pilot with a medical problem. I was there long before Chris was hired. And I watched the 3 morons come in and screw things up royally. THEY made it a place where kissing *** was more important than being a good pilot. They each have their little cliques that run around informing on other pilots.

Gama could be a great place to work if they got rid of those 3. I know well over 30 highly experienced pilots that left because they got sick of the B.S. being spread by the 3 tyrants.

WOW! Every day I meet pilots in TEB that have bad stories to tell about those three. How is it that companies keep clowns like this on that cause such dissent in the ranks of employees. They are too many good, qualified individuals that could bring integrity and character to the workplace but instead they get those losers.

like all companies, gama has their 5%ers, looks like a couple of them post here . . .

I personally am very happy and content here at Gama. I upgraded quickly as promised in the interview, was awarded my home town as my domicile when it became available, and have been treated fairly by management so far.

The health insurance is excellent, the hotels we stay at are for the most part very nice, the aircraft maintenance is very good, and the compensation package is generous.

The 4 biggest complaints I hear from the guys I fly with are:

1) Lack of seniority list.
2) People getting skipped over for pilots with less seniority regarding upgrades and transitions to the XL.
3) Lack of progressive pay scale and vacation.
4) Hiring street captains when there are qualified F.O.s waiting to upgrade.

The question that the people running the operation need to ask themselves is this.
Is Gama a place for guys to come and stick around for 1 or two years with constant revolving door, or do they want it to be a career destination, like NetJets for example?

If they are hoping guys will come here and hang their hats, they need to address the issues I mentioned. Especially in the current hiring environment.

I guess "generous" compensation is relative.... What is generous about what they offer for your flying?

I'd say $81,000 a year with 100% health coverage and a 401k match is pretty generous for a King Air position.

I'm just trying to offer an unbiased opinion on the good and bad points about working at this company.

Of course, I like everyone else am keeping my finger on the pulse of the industry, but as of right now I'm quite happy where I am.

I would have to agree with you. I think the pay and benefit package far outweighs what other operations offer but I do believe, from what I read of the comments posted, that they appear to be satisfied with a revolving door as there is no seniority list. Even if there is a so-called pilot shortage, I can understand their need to direct hire captains but it is a definite slap in the face to F/O's that have put in their time and are qualified to upgrade but get passed by. Also the hiring practices and favoritism displayed by the three musketeers leaves a ton to be desired. Once you get in and are online though, for flying a King Air, to me, it compares closer to NetJets than any other operation. Wish I could get in there.

I used to think it was generous. I don't any more. This isn't an entry level job and we all work harder than your average pilot. That salary on a larger airframe that flies 1 leg a day (or heaven forbid 2 legs), and an externally serviced lav might be considered a joke. But the higher salary is deserved in that case? They must be far better pilots than you or I....Progressive pay scale is needed.

Health Insurance. Not going to argue that one. Can't be beat. But there's nothing stopping them pulling out the rug on that one.

401K match. Meh. I think it's 50% of first 6% or something like that. Average.

IMHO.

You have made good points. If I was an F/O there, the lack of a seniority list would be my biggest concern. Howver, my opinion comes from researching numerous other operations. Not to degrade them, but Boutique starts a 350 captain at like $64,000 and the schedule is a lot tougher. In fact I have yet to find a 135 operator that comes even close to what GAMA pays. I have seen much better pay rates in corporate but even they are getting scarce. When WUP first started pilots left in droves solely because of the schedule. I think they are having some growing g pains because there is little to no communication with mgmt in charge. They are getting too big to continue like that forever. The revolving door policy will cost them too much in the long run.

But - and correct me if I'm wrong - Boutique has just ATP minimums posted for their PIC positions. No prior 135, 91K, butler experience, ect. I think when I last looked, only 40hrs multi time was required there. Not the case at WUP.

That's is,all true but I guess I am just looking at the bottom line. Personally, I would be satisfied with everything that GAMA has to offer as I had to do everything like dump the potty when I flew corporate so it wouldn't matter to me but even with 4000+ hours alone in the 350 it won't come pass. We can all find something to complain about at some point but if your on the outside looking in, the picture definitely is rosier.

WUP Time Requirements
 

Can anybody clarify the time requirements.. On Climbto350 it is a little confusing.

https://s14.postimg.org/45iploogx/Sc...5_13_51_PM.png

Is it 2000? 2500? 2000 for FO's? 2500 for PIC's?

This is not very clear along with upgrade times from SIC...if ever.

Hey, I can't really reply to your request because I am not part of it but would suggest you go back and search out some of the replies that you can find not only on 135, but try fractional and type in gama. you may not find exactly what you are looking for but there appears to be a conflict between what they say and what they do regarding upgrades. there is a lot of favoritism in this regard and I think you will see a generally concern from a lot of the pilots in this one area. if you can hang on long enough, I think it is a better than average place to get on with regarding pay, schedule, and benefits. it maybe can be attributed to growing pains and then again, maybe not. hope you are successful.

It reads like they won't come below 2000tt regardless of what you've flown. I'd say if you had 2001 tt and 1500tt in the 350 then you'd have a chance at being hired. Otherwise it would be the 2500tt min.
3000tt is needed for upgrade from what I've heard

If you're close send your stuff in. There is no clarity here regarding much of anything.

I'm curious if:
- They have a promissory note, value and duration.
- Any history of discouraging squawks.
- Rolling 24/7 duty times.
- They "trade" turbine time for multi time for new applicants.

- One year. Don't remember the amount. $18K maybe?
- Absolutely not. However, MX control sometimes aren't the friendliest guys to talk to after a long day.
- No. Start times are predetermined and everything is legal. Go home day sucks a little sometimes as it's not counted in your duty day.
- Put in your stuff to find out. Who knows.

I was hired as a street Captain back in March. Everything is relative, compared to L3, Gama is a much better place. They have growing issues, like any company and I'm certainly frustrated at times but overall, I like it. I certainly may move on but I'm doing my year. I will say the pay is decent, don't know much about the medical insurance as I am a retired military aviator but I certainly would like to see an inrease in pay with seniority. That would be my wish.

Thanks, Starbucks

If I understand your comment, your travel day to get home is applied against your off duty days?

On the last day of your tour (day 8) you will duty off, then airline home. Technically you could work a 14 hour duty day, then airline home but that rarely happens.

Is the ATP requirement a must or will they allow you to do it during the type? I exceed all requirements substantially but do not have my ATP yet.

Chicago base?
 

Is ORD or MDW a base for wheels up?

If you have you're written done, I'd submit your resume. Doubt they'll pay for the CTP, but I don't think a type rating/ATP ride costs differently.

Yes.

I know there have been a least a few people come in with just the ATP written completed.

Hiring for west coast bases
 

The GAMA website recently showed west coast bases for the King Air operation.

Does anyone have any idea when they may start hiring and interviewing to fill those vacancies??

Check PM........