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Old 12-02-2019, 08:29 AM   #11  
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,925

Originally Posted by BryceA8 View Post
What’s wrong with my judgement?
Ah, doubling down...

Originally Posted by BryceA8 View Post
There’s nothing wrong with flying to all the states.
That is not what you stated you were going to do. What you stated as your intention was to fly to 48 states, IN ONE MONTH, flying 8-10 hours per day. To up the ante the month was December, the month of the year with the shortest days and longest nights. From your towering experience level of 600 hours. “Roughing it” by
sleeping in FBO's, hammock or tent.
Now clearly what you are proposing is not 121 flying and not subject to 117 limitations, but that does NOT mean that ignoring 117 limitations is necessarily prudent. You propose to fly - in a small unpressurized general aviation aircraft with high noise levels and another relatively inexperienced time-building pilot whose sole required qualifications appear to be that he/she can pay his/her share of the expenses while ‘sleeping rough’ - an amount of flying that would be three times what is legal (let alone prudent) for a couple of ATPs with dispatch help, hotels with clean sheets at night, etc., to do in a modern pressurized aircraft flying under 121.

Now I realize the highest elevation in all of Michigan is less than 2000 feet, but that is NOT the case in many of the lower 48. In the West MEAs for mountain passes are frequently in the mid teens. You going to try to squeeze through underneath? Try and go on top - sucking O2 if you are doing it legally? After how many days/nights of sleeping rough?

The mishap report I posted was for a Cessna 177B, granted it was 20 hp less and 15 knots slower than your 177RG, but three people died trying to do something far less ambitious, fatiguing, and dangerous than what you are assuming you can do. I don’t fault the ‘student pilot’ who after all was only seven and I wouldn’t expect her to know any better. I do fault the two adults with her who were dumb, dumb, dumb.

Take from that what you will.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:45 AM   #12  
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 110

Think about the IMSAFE checklist. Every pilot should be way familiar with it before they even solo.

Are you ill? Maybe not on December 1st, but if you push ten hour days followed by sleeping on floors during the winter you’ll def get sick within the first couple weeks

Medication? Are you going to be on medicine when you get sick?

Stress? Is spending an entire month on the road with a complete stranger going to cause stress?

Alcohol? Shouldn’t be a factor

Fatigue? This one goes without saying that you’ll be plenty fatigued

Emotions/external factors? What are you going to do if the plane breaks while you’re out in the middle of nowhere sleeping in a tent
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:23 AM   #13  
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,925

From the NASA database:

FAA pilot of a cessna 177RG experienced engine failure during IMC operations caused by air intake impact icing. The engine self started after the aircraft involuntarily descended to a lower altitude and a successful landing was subsequently made.

Date 199612
Day Mon
Local Time Of Day 0601 To 1200
Locale Reference airport : olm
State Reference WA
Altitude msl bound lower : 9000
msl bound upper : 9000
Flight Conditions IMC
Light Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator other
Make Model Name Cardinal 177/177RG
Operating Under FAR Part Part 91
Flight Phase cruise other
Route In Use enroute airway : zse
Flight Plan IFR
Person 1
Affiliation government other
Function flight crew : single pilot
Qualification other other : other
pilot : commercial
pilot : instrument
pilot : cfi
pilot : atp
Experience flight time last 90 days : 50
flight time total : 2500
flight time type : 50
ASRS Report 354582
Person 2
Affiliation government : faa
Function controller : radar
Qualification controller : radar
Anomaly aircraft equipment problem : critical
other anomaly other
Independent Detector other flight crewa
Resolutory Action aircraft : equipment problem dissipated
flight crew : exited adverse environment
Consequence faa : investigated
Primary Problem Aircraft
Air Traffic Incident other

Cruising at 9000 ft MSL, sbound on V165 with no ice accumulating on wing or tail leading edges. Outside air temperature approximately minus 12 degrees C. Conditions were IMC in clouds. Engine manifold pressure dropped abruptly from 21 inches to 15 inches. Informed ATC, asked for approach into olympia, and completed emergency checklist. About 45 seconds after initial partial power loss, complete engine power loss occurred. Then declared emergency, and asked for vector to nearest airport. Set up glide for toledo, wa, airport using handheld GPS and controller vectors. Was informed that ceiling at toledo was 1000 ft. At 4000 ft MSL, engine came back to life. Airplane is 1976 cessna 177RG with I0360 engine. When engine restarted, asked for and was cleared for ILS to olympia. Landed without further incident. This airplane has fuel-injected engine with 'automatic' alternate induction air source. After landing, found air filter about 1/2 blocked with ice. I believe that part of the ice must have fallen off at 4000 ft allowing engine to restart. No ice was visible elsewhere on airframe where pilot could see it from cockpit. Since the engine did not surge as is typical with the operation of a spring loaded automatic alternate air source, I don't believe the alternate door ever opened. Design is bad since alternate door is at front of engine, unheated, and is nearly as susceptible to icing as the primary air filter. All reciprocating engine airplanes should have heated alternate air sources with the ability for pilot to manually open if chooses. This would prevent such a power loss in event of inadvertent induction icing. Mechanic's inspection found alternate air door ok per maintenance manual. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter stated that he submitted a safety recommendation to the FAA office of accident investigation, recommendation and quality assurance division (aai-200) of this matter recommending a fix that would allow the pilot to manually control the opening of the alternate air intake door. He believes that this system was never adequately reviewed prior to giving cessna FAA ok of the system. The reporter believes that this is a good example of why the alternate intake door should not be totally automatic. In addition, this system would not meet the current certification rules for the minimum air temperature required for the location of the alternate intake door opening.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 12-07-2019, 12:17 PM   #14  
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,925


MSA within 25 nautical miles of Toledo Wa is 7000 ft MSL.

Last edited by Excargodog; 12-07-2019 at 12:27 PM.
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