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Oops… possible pilot deviation


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Oops… possible pilot deviation

Old 10-17-2021, 07:38 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by cons
Lots of variables to the story. Not sure how recently this occurred, as the controller has 24 hours to file an ATSAP report from the time of the event/incident/accident occurrence. They may or may not have filed an ATSAP report. Unless your violation (if it actually is one) resulted in a loss of separation with another aircraft or airspace adjacent to the controller's airspace, then I see no reason why the controller would file an ATSAP report. Additionally, if the controller who terminated your radar was the one working the Class C airspace that you allegedly violated, then he/she obviously knew where you were flying to and that you were possibly going to infringe on their airspace. Thus, it doesn't make much sense for the controller to turn you in for an airspace violation.

How it turns out is also dependent on the type of approach airspace. If it's a busy one, most likely you won't hear about it again because they could really care less about small stuff like this. However, if it's at a slower approach control, then it's really a toss up if this eventually goes up the chain as far as the FSDO contacting you for more information. At that point you should really consider seeking advice from legal counsel.

To your last question, I had a friend of mine many years go violate a Class C airspace on a student solo cross-country flight (he was flying to HFD and violated the approach/arrival end of BDL Class C). He got into a lot of trouble with the Bradley FSDO but nothing really came of it. He now flies for DAL. Thus, IF you do get the violation on your record, just be able to explain it at an interview IF it does come up. Same goes for you checkride failures, just own up to them. Be honest by admitting your mistakes, and state how you learned from those mistakes/failures. GL
Originally Posted by Electrickjet
Simply file the NASA Report...over & done.
Thank you! NASA report filed.

Originally Posted by Wink
Sounds like it was the controller's mistake and you are fine. You could file an ASRS report to avoid a possible deviation but it probably wont go that far. This shouldnt prevent your career advancement imo.
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Gordie H
Sounds to me like you're fine. I'd still file a NASA report...couldn't hurt. I'd also ask a mentor or someone more experienced locally if there's a more preferable way wrt getting back to your airport when the tower is closed.
Thank you.
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Old 10-18-2021, 03:42 AM
  #12  
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MosquitoXEL
From back in my days as CFI:
We had a nearby Class C airport with a Class D airport tucked under the C shelf kinda in its armpit to give you a visual.
DPE favorite especially with foreign students to do a touch and go at the Class D.
ATC controller would generally cancel radar service and tell you to squawk VFR when handing you off to the D TWR.
Which means you’d be better off doing a full stop taxi back and coordinate with TWR or GND freq for a transponder code outbound.
Otherwise you’d have to stay below 1200’ while contacting C getting a code and explaining which way you want to go while maintaining your 1000’ above the highest obstacle.
So the solution was:

1. Coordinate with C controller to keep the code for your outbound and just having to establish radio contact after release from D TWR, or
2. If for what ever reason you couldn’t make that work ( frequency congestion etc ) do a full stop taxi back to coordinate the outbound and tell the DPE that you can’t comply with his request for a touch and go.

I’ve even had Commercial applicants on stage checks bugger that one up.
Thats why your story kinda sounded familiar.
Best of luck.
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Old 10-18-2021, 10:18 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul
MosquitoXEL
From back in my days as CFI:
We had a nearby Class C airport with a Class D airport tucked under the C shelf kinda in its armpit to give you a visual.
DPE favorite especially with foreign students to do a touch and go at the Class D.
ATC controller would generally cancel radar service and tell you to squawk VFR when handing you off to the D TWR.
Which means you’d be better off doing a full stop taxi back and coordinate with TWR or GND freq for a transponder code outbound.
Otherwise you’d have to stay below 1200’ while contacting C getting a code and explaining which way you want to go while maintaining your 1000’ above the highest obstacle.
So the solution was:

1. Coordinate with C controller to keep the code for your outbound and just having to establish radio contact after release from D TWR, or
2. If for what ever reason you couldn’t make that work ( frequency congestion etc ) do a full stop taxi back to coordinate the outbound and tell the DPE that you can’t comply with his request for a touch and go.

I’ve even had Commercial applicants on stage checks bugger that one up.
Thats why your story kinda sounded familiar.
Best of luck.
Sounds identical to my situation here. I brought this up to my peers and chief CFI at a recent meeting. No one was really sure if a regulation was broken during this incident. However, moving forward I will stress the importance of descending below the class C shelf to my students. It doesn’t seem like a good idea to me to be in class C without talking to ATC. I personally doubt anything will come of this since the supervisor didn’t get my information and I filed a NASA just in case. Lesson learned.
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Old 10-18-2021, 04:19 PM
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Although cant be 100% certain, I think it's highly unlikely (and thats an understatement) for anything will come down on you. From a legal perspective, there's a lot of mitigating factors here- i.e. they had the tapes of the 2 way radio communications, the "clip" was not egregious but merely a mistake, you called the phone number and owned up to it and the supervisor said you were fine. Also submit a NASA report as everyone else was mentioning. I think that will cover all your bases. These things happen from time to time, controllers understand that.

Also, it's a significant amount of time and paperwork resources for a report and full investigation to be carried out. It would be a lot of work for little to no benefit so when you called I'm sure they just let it go. The controllers need to "pick their battles" per se, and this to me just doesn't rise to a level where it would make sense for them to go after you, and for you to lose sleep over it.

It would be a different story if you called the number and said something along the lines of "screw off, you wannabe metropolitan Class B controllers, you work for ME" etc... that would probably have a different outcome.
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Old 10-18-2021, 06:28 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by swiftdev082
Although cant be 100% certain, I think it's highly unlikely (and thats an understatement) for anything will come down on you. From a legal perspective, there's a lot of mitigating factors here- i.e. they had the tapes of the 2 way radio communications, the "clip" was not egregious but merely a mistake, you called the phone number and owned up to it and the supervisor said you were fine. Also submit a NASA report as everyone else was mentioning. I think that will cover all your bases. These things happen from time to time, controllers understand that.

Also, it's a significant amount of time and paperwork resources for a report and full investigation to be carried out. It would be a lot of work for little to no benefit so when you called I'm sure they just let it go. The controllers need to "pick their battles" per se, and this to me just doesn't rise to a level where it would make sense for them to go after you, and for you to lose sleep over it.

It would be a different story if you called the number and said something along the lines of "screw off, you wannabe metropolitan Class B controllers, you work for ME" etc... that would probably have a different outcome.
"I am a sovereign citizen!!"

No but, an airspace violation like that is not a MOR (Mandatory Occurrence Report), so doubt the controller wants to do paperwork unless you are a douchenozzle to him on the phone.
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