Eagle Jet International
 

I wanted to see if anyone has been to or worked for Eagle Jet Intern. They have multiple programs including time building in BE-1900, Shorts 360, and also have a 500 hr Corporate Pilot deal flying Lear Jets and Falcon 20's. Now i know this is PFT and alot of you are against this, however im just trying to see what experence others have had with this company.

This company also boust that after you complete your 500hr PFT that you can be hired as a FO with their 135. Have any of you actually had this experience. Thanks in advance for your input and ability to STAY ON TOPIC.:D

No Takers?

I have no experience with this outfit what so ever but after reading the website I'm very skeptical. I would not pay 35K for an SIC type in either of those planes. They are old and mostly used for freight these days which leads to more non-corporate, cargo jobs. You would have to work there 2+ years to make a living at it. It sounds more like a pilot recruitment outfit trying to turn profits on training rather than operating a 135 outfit. Where are their bases? Where do they fly? Anyone?

The Lear and Falcon program is closed, the outfit running it is not working very much. Do good and if they are hiring, you might get hired.

The Navajo, Beech 1900, Metro, BE99 are with Ameriflight. Do good and if they are hiring, you might get hired. Argue amongst yourselves about SIC time in single-pilot aircraft.

Gulfstream also has a SIC pay-to-play program. There it is recognized SIC time. After your time you'll be "furloughed" where if the supply of pay-to-play SIC s ever runs out, you might get hired as a real FO by them.

I hear the pay-to-play programs are quite profitable for their operators, otherwise places like Eagle Jet wouldn't exist.

Last time I checked, the BE-1900 and SA227 are not single pilot aircraft. They may be operated single pilot, provided the PIC holds the appropriate single pilot rating for the aircraft.

The aircraft certification has nothing to do with the pilot. They are certified under FARs part 23, 25 and so on. The pilots are under part 63. Yes you do need to have the single pilot waiver to fly it by yourself but still two different things.

Eaglejet
 

This is from my experience with Eaglejet which was some time ago. I was working as a contract pilot for a charter company sitting rightseat on BE 200's , CE 500 & CJ2's when the customer wanted two pilots insteed of just the one. I was not getting alot of time and wanted to move up to bigger A/C which required two pilots, and more experience on my part. I was refered to Eaglejet by a co-worker who had been in the same situation and was now flying rightseat on the hawkers.

Eaglejet has aggrements with several companies for flight time. I ended up flying the Beech 99 with Ameriflight. The program is expensive. When I went through there were 5 or 6 guys in the program. You have to pay for your hotel or crashpad while in training. You can buddy up and split the cost with other pilots in the program. There were even some crashpads in the area which some used. After training when your on the road you may have to pay for your hotel on the layovers, usually at the company rate. Some routes have a crew crashpad some dont. Some pilots may offer to share a room but they dont have to.

Now this is the important part. You get out of it what you put into it. If you make an effort, work hard and help out, both the pilots and instructors will bend over backwards to help you out. If you act like a jerk they will treat you as a jerk and life will be very very difficult for you.

As I said earlier it is expensive but this is now it broke down for me. I went with the 250 hour program and took about a year flying part time. It penciled out to about $49.00 an hour for turbine time. It was less then half of spliting twin time at my local FBO. You fly in a structured enviroment and into weather and conditions where, if I were just splitting twin time, I wouldn"t even bother driving to the airport. I got alot of actual time flying in the Pacific NW buring the winter. You log sic time when you are hauling freight and can log pic when your part 91 flying empty non rev.

For me it worked out great. I got some real experience and made a couple of great friends who I still keep in touch with.

Thanks FR8 for all the good info. The only reason i am looking at this is for time saving. I am a 725 hr CFII who has been instructing part time for 8 years. this has been great, however my time is only creaping up, granted 4 years of that i was in college and didn't fly much at all. right now i work full time (non aviation releated) and have a family so my options are some what limited. If i could find a full time instructing gig i would be in business, however just like everywhere else jobs are scarce.

Might be something to look into, im not sure i want to drop 40K now. Thanks for all the info guys i really appreciate it. if you know of any part or full time flying gigs in North Carolina please PM me.:)

As much as I disagree with these programs and how they operate, but I will completely agree with Fr8's mention of the actual experience you will take away from this. You just can't experience the type of weather and situations you get when flying night freight, period!

not sure if its relevant, but:

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...-training.html

Imo Eagle-Jet is a despicable operation, paying for TR and paying for line-training and then paying to operate as a first officer? Especially the large-jet programs like 737, a320 etc

P2F is cancer

I don't want to perpetuate this argument since it's not central to the original poster's question. However, you need to get a couple facts straight because you are wrong.

1) It's Part 61, not Part 63.

2) Aircraft certification has EVERYTHING to do with a pilot. Every aircraft type certificate must specify the minimum number of crewmembers. This is in fact a Part 23/25 requirement. See §§ 23.1523 and 25.1523.

For instance, the CE-500 aircraft requires two pilots per the type certificate. This is not a Part 61 issue, it's part of the certification of the aircraft. The CE-500 MAY be flown by a single pilot; however, this is accomplished under an exemption to Part 23 called Exemption 4050.

3) JediNein made an offhanded comment about logging SIC time in "single-pilot" aircraft. She included the Metro and the Beech 1900 in this list. My point was simply to clarify that the SA-227 Metroliner and BE-1900 are not "single-pilot" aircraft. Both aircraft require two pilots per their type certificate(s). Therefore, an SIC is required and logging this time would be perfectly appropriate in these instances.

Sorry, 61......miss type and didn't think about it twice.

Anyway I have my 1900 book in front of me I flew it for a few years and I'm sure there are many on here that have so they can contribute. Guess what its certified for 1 person. So is the Metro and so is the Cessna 501 not the 500. If I remember correctly there are a few things moved around the cockpit to be able to make it a 501 so it can be flown by a single pilot. Look I don't really want to argue this that much but aircraft has to be certified for 1 or 2 and in the old days 3 pilots when it goes through certification. If it is certified for 1 pilot that is all you need. Maybe a Mesa guy can shed more light on the subject because I believe their captains had the single pilot type and on repo legs they flew single pilot so the company saved money.

Either way if the aircraft is certified for one person which the 1900, metro and some others are.......that is all you need. Don't confuse aircraft certification with pilot certification, which I said before because if the plane is not certified for one person getting a single pilot waiver or type rating wouldn't matter. That would be like getting a single pilot type for the 737, not gonna happen the min crew is 2 vs. the 1900 the min crew is 1. On top of that the 1900 does not require a "waiver." If the type rating is done solo that is all you need to fly single pilot. I think you also answered your own arguement by saying under PART 23 you can fly single pilot.......thats not 61. That is aircraft certification.

So don't tell me the 1900 requires 2 pilots, if you read the manuals it says 1, just like all the other king airs, just like the metro and the 501 but not the 500 unless you have the waiver. If you don't believe me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_1900

Basically the exemption allows the operator to fly with one pilot even though the plane was certified for two, in the case of the citation. The 1900 and the metro were originally certified for 1 pilot so no exemption is required.

I'm not sure even an exemption is necessary for single pilot on these planes. It's regs such as part 135 regarding 10 plus passengers that makes them required. Where it's cargo, part 135 doesn't require it.

On the subject of exemptions, however, if you have an AMF Ops Manual, I suggest you look them up under in the ops specs.

My buddy does the Jaa 737 air india FO program with them. I would not do this program at all. First off airlines dont like "pay to play pilot" go get your MEI. You do all the twin multi time with Ameriflight, and yes your captain doesn't have to invite you to the crashpad if he doesnt want to either! Basically your there ***** and at the bottom for everything!!!

You people make me absolutely sick! I spent my time earning my experince just to have some dumb-a like you short change the whole industry and pay to WORK! Thanks for making the industry what it has become, and helping everyone in it continue the race to the bottom! I hope you find yourself in some kind of certificate action in the future and loose the right to be a pilot!


Mods: Violate, ban me, whatever. I really don't care. If this is what the industry is becoming, I'm out!

Harsh but straight to the point. I don't know about the violations being called for though. I can understand exactly about this point of view. I'm a CFI for a few years building time and experience and know of one or two incidents where a rich kids dad bought them flight time. It's hard to sit by and watch that. More so when the kid with his wet commercial comes back to my coworkers and tells them how to fly a turbine.
The WildSmurf

Wow. I can't believe you would put up with BS like that...

Guys and girls, that's not paying your dues. It's called being used and abused. That's no way to live if you respect yourself.

Well, It worked out great for me and I had a blast doing it.

Some prostitutes can end up making a large sums of money and have a great time doing it.

You either have self respect or you don't. Just sayin'...

You don't deserve to be in this profession. You know why regional pilots make start out making the money they do? Because of people like you. Thanks. I still wish you nothing but perril and anguish in your career as a pilot. I hope some day to come across you outside of these forums so I can tell you what I really think of you.

Ouch, I feel so hurt. But since I'm not married to you and you dont sign my checks, it really dosent matter what you think does it :)

It's o.k. At least I have self respect and won't allow myself to be pimped out by Eagle Jet. Unlike you, I am concerned about where this industry is heading, and am doing my best to help prevent the demise of a decent wage for a decent days work. And, unlike you, I have a family to support. I don't suck of my mom and dads nipple to have a good time flying airplanes. And, unlike you, I get my turbine time not only paid for, but my company pays for the training as well. I may only sit right seat when I fly turbines, but atleast I get paid to do it, FROM THE START. I wasn't so desperate with SJS and flying multi-crew airplanes that I went and paid someone $25k to get a taste of what may be. I can only hope that the people who see this in the future of your career see that you tried to shortcut things and see it for what it really is. Just some chump who has done nothing but put the industry into the gutter.

I grew up around chief pilots, when the PFJ and PFT time was just comming of age. They were all disgusted with it and refuse to hire someone who has participated in it. So, when you finally get to a level of a decent job, good luck with this not biting you in the butt.


Your attitude reflects why this industry is in a constant decline for the last 20 years. I guess you got yours so nothing else matters. What you don't realize it that eventully it's going to catch up with you, and some CEO is going to get his all over you.

Don't confuse prostitutes with wh0res.

Prostitutes are professionals and work to make a living, wh0res do it because they love it and are willing to do it for free.

easy now!
 

Whoa Nelly! Easy on the jetpipe overheat! Not everyone feels that way, what about all the RJ trainers out there like American Fliers or MAPD or ATP? Then again someone that has had there wheels greased from the get go doesn't understand the struggle to work in an industry that is full of passionate people. HMMM. Also, I'm sure the Unions haven't sold anyone out in all of their representation.... Keep drinking the koolaide and you will always stay an FO:eek:

out of line
 

MSHunter your out of line and if PM won't jump in and tell you then others should. You wish Peril and anguish on anyone shows just how much you are out of touch with professionalism in this industry. If you had a better national union you would have better pay. Training in any industry is just training. YOur upset because someone found the means to possibly short cut the waiting period. Your argument is the same as West Point or any Service Academy v.s. ROTC. Give me a break and quit thinking of yourself first and do some good in the world of 121. :cool:

FYI. check my profile dude. I FO occosionaly. The majority of the time I fly single pilot charters. And I went to ATP and tought at American Flyers. I have been around the industry nearly my entire life I know what it takes to make it to the top and hope to be there some day. If I do make it there and a guy shows up with PFJ in his logbook, the interview will be over! Do I feel pasionate about this topic? You bet. I don't need some spoiled rich kid ruining for those of us who have to work for what we have.



Thats the difference between you and me. I will NEVER fly 121. I have had in previous and still have a very personal relationship with my boss. He's the kind of guy that makes sure we are taken care of. The kind of boss that invites you and your family to his house for a BBQ. The kind of boss that if you call in sick, you don't have to stand infront of him and explain yourself. The kind of boss you don't need union protection from.


I'd love to post more, but I am texting from my phone right now. When I get back to CA at my computer I'll post more.

i guess what MS wants is for us to just not get a job. MS im not saying PFT is the way to go, but what you don't know is there are no flying jobs out there, and this includes flight instructing jobs. For some of us who are tired of working in non-aviation jobs, and are ready to fly for a living PFT is looking like the only option. When a instructor has over 500 hrs of dual given and sends out resumes to 5 flight schools and recieves no response, that should tell you something. For some people the only option is to wait for the market to change (god knows when that will happen) or PFT weather it be eagle jet, or buying a block in a seneca. If i was to do this (which i dont think i am) it wouldn't be paid by mommy and daddy it would be a @$$ busting loan that took years to pay off. Its obvious you broke into the market when jobs were plentiful, so don't bust on others who took the only option available to them. Anyone who wishes bad on other pilots gives the industry a worst rap than those who PFT.

Is this still worth it? Borderline bankruptcy to fly? Dismiss all the other stuff in here, but I never made enough money to pay for that type of loan until after I flew freight. I've never been 121 either.

Every aviation job I have had has been in this market. And it has happened one of two ways. Either from connections, or from putting a face to a resume. Most employers (even non-aviation) will look at a resume sent via e-mail as something that goes in the round file. I got the job I am working at right now two months ago. I finished up my ratings a little over two years ago, WHEN THE AIRLINES WERE FURGHLOUGHING LIKE CRAZY. You have to pound the pavement and make contacts. It has always been that way unless you fly for an airline, and even then a contact helps out huge. The only reason I got my first job as a flight instructor was because I was persistant. I was in there once a week for a month, and called the chief pilot a few times a week for the same time frame. Perserverance. What makes you think you'll be anymore competitive after you PFT and have 1200tt than someone who did it the traditional way who has the same turbine time, but another 2500TT? Because trust me, there is TONS of those guys on the street right now. Why do you think your resume has been looked past?

As for wishing bad on those who PFT. I wish this because this is the reason why wages have come down so much. PFT is destroying a once good career. Why would you pay someone for a job that they would happily pay for. The only reason that most airlines don't do it as well is because of unions. Do you want to have to pay for working for someone for 2-5 years as an FO so you can make $30k as a captian? Because thats what PFT will lead this industry into. People just don't get it.


Edit: Am I the exception. No. I am the rule. Why do I say that. Because I still do it the traditional way, by meeting people, and doing the right thing, as in earning everything I have right now, not buying my way into the right/left seat of anything I have ever flown. Employers see that, and understand that I will not try and short cut them, or use them for a fw months to get to that next step. I flight instructed for seven days a week for two years to make it here. Now, I am salary, work a few days a week, na dhelp out in the office/with maint. and make extra money for doing that. If the PFT guys had an ounce of self respect and didn't have such a "I got mine, screw everyone else" attitude, then maybe the regionals would pay more than poverty wages and I'd have considered a 121 career.

I have spoken to some companies and they view PTF as a lesser form of getting into the industry. IMO it does weaken the leverage of pilot wages and makes the professional pilot a "toothless tiger".

Just what I see and what I have heard higher-ups at a well known 135 op say.

Consider this... If You'Re willing to take out a loan to pay $25,000 for a short cut to SIC time, how will you feel when somebody comes along and takes out a $100,000 loan to get a short cut to PIC time. Just think how much better prepared HE will be than you. So don't get angry.....

Five whole resumes? Some of us sent out dozens... and then hand carried a bunch more to every FBO, flight school, 91 and 135 operator within 2-3 hours drive.

http://www.smileyhut.com/happy/clap3.gif

Finally, someone who gets it!

I find it ironic that the first response in alternatives to PFT is flight instructing. During times like these, it's not much more than a pyramid scheme, you've got to sell several others on the dream to make your dream happen. It's the guys at the bottom that get hit the hardest. They're now desperate for work, and there's a ton of them. Most of them feel like they have passed the point of no return, and will make desperate moves to make things happen (beating down the doors of the flight school for a contract instructor position included, I believe some call it "persistence"). Heaven forbid they should buy time instead of selling the next generation on the dream.

There's plenty of people out there that want to learn how to fly yet want nothing to do with aviation as a career. I only had one student at my flight school that wanted to be a career pilot... Everybody else was just having fun. Not every school is setup like ATP and ERAU.

If students like these are in such "plentiful" supply, these guys should have no problem finding a job.

There is no problem finding a job right now, if you have the drive. If you want to be in this career, or any for that matter, not just get some job, you have to be willing to do what it takes to make it happen. I had to move a few times when I was an auto mech. to get the next raise. It's the nature of ANY industry. Some just don't require a move across the country and some do.


Edit to add: Of all the students I ever instructed, only two were career oriented.

Hell, for $35,000 we'll let you sit in the left seat of a bizjet and get some hours. For $60,000 you can probably get a PIC type rating out of it.

Seriously. If you want to pay for your flight time thinking that will help you out, I might as well benefit from it. In the end, most people don't hire a logbook...they hire a person with experience, not a bunch of numbers. But whatever works for ya.

-mini

You're not "part of the problem," that's great. I could say something similar myself, but it's irrelevant. I'm not the one looking for a scapegoat here. Heck, I'm not even opposed to instructing as long as there's a legitimate demand for it. But why are we pushing it when there obviously isn't a demand for it?

My point is, a lot of times, when flight schools are overstaffed and instructors are beating the doors down, they feel the need to recruit. You won't argue with me that the pyramid scheme is a problem. Are you trying to argue it's existence?