Buying Hours
02-18-2011, 02:08 PM
#22
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,322
Originally Posted by Coto Pilot
If you don't have your MEI get it and find another MEI and then you can alternate giving each other dual and have one of you logging PIC Dual Given and the other logging dual received, both going toward your total time.
This will get you violated, the FAA only allows dual-given for legitimate training purposes, not time building. Training for these sorts of things is legal:
Certs/ratings/privileges
Currency
Proficiency
Aircraft checkout
Rental Checkout
Area/Route familiarization
Insurance checkouts
If you GIVE dual on an airplane, there are few circumstances where you can then turn around and receive dual in the same airplane...examples might be a 141 annual flight check, an area/route fam such as a mountain flying course, or a FR.
But you don't want a logbook full of switch-hitter dual-given...employers will probably not find it amusing either.
02-23-2011, 06:35 AM
#23
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Desk: Designing Instrument Approaches/Departures
Posts: 54
I know that a lot of pilots look down on those who pay for FO and timebuilding programs that employ you after paying some exorbitant amount of money.
How is this any different than if I were to go purchase an airplane and fly it around for hundreds of hours in order to land my first job at the airlines rather than working entry level pilot jobs? (CFI, Banner Tow, Pipeline Patrol, Hauling Checks etc..)
How is this any different than if I were to go purchase an airplane and fly it around for hundreds of hours in order to land my first job at the airlines rather than working entry level pilot jobs? (CFI, Banner Tow, Pipeline Patrol, Hauling Checks etc..)
02-23-2011, 06:44 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by clipperstall
I know that a lot of pilots look down on those who pay for FO and timebuilding programs that employ you after paying some exorbitant amount of money.
How is this any different than if I were to go purchase an airplane and fly it around for hundreds of hours in order to land my first job at the airlines rather than working entry level pilot jobs? (CFI, Banner Tow, Pipeline Patrol, Hauling Checks etc..)
How is this any different than if I were to go purchase an airplane and fly it around for hundreds of hours in order to land my first job at the airlines rather than working entry level pilot jobs? (CFI, Banner Tow, Pipeline Patrol, Hauling Checks etc..)
Essentially, its shoots you / us in the foot.
02-23-2011, 07:03 AM
#25
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Opportunities
We all have access to diffrent opportunities in life. Some can afford to waste years of their life to slowly build time while others can buy a job. Don't let others try to scare you out of using the advantages that you have. I have never heard of an employer who cared about how you got your flight time.
People are threatened by "pay to play" jobs since it demonstrates just how truly worthless most flying careers are that people would be willing to pay for the job.
Skyhigh
People are threatened by "pay to play" jobs since it demonstrates just how truly worthless most flying careers are that people would be willing to pay for the job.
Skyhigh
02-23-2011, 08:34 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 396
there can a huge difference IMO in the quality of recreational flight time and commercial flight time. If I had my own plane I wouldn't fly it if I had a runny nose or the weather was headed downhill. In commercial air transport there are so many other external factors at play, and you are not the one making the schedule.
That being said, if your recreational twin time was all pretty diverse cross country flying with some solid night & IMC I'd respect that fact that your goal was to build experience rather than flight time
That being said, if your recreational twin time was all pretty diverse cross country flying with some solid night & IMC I'd respect that fact that your goal was to build experience rather than flight time
02-24-2011, 05:50 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 62
If I was a potential employer (and I should note that I am not, so take this with a grain of salt) I would have the following concerns hiring someone who built their time all in a self-owned airplane:
- They have never had a flying job before: flying has been something they do when they want because they want to. How will they adjust to flying as part of a daily grind, based on someone else's schedule and needs.
- If they can afford to buy and fly their own plane, how likely is it that they will put up with the low pay, long hours, and often poor working conditions that usually come with low level pilot jobs? What will keep them here instead of just going back to flying recreationally?
- Depending on their other work experience (if they have any), do they have a track record demonstrating the traits desired in any employee: dependability, reliability, are they hard working?
However, if you're smart, you'll have much more x-country, night, and IMC than the CFI or diver driver. If you're getting good IFR time, shooting more challenging instrument approaches into more challenging airports and use the time to build experience, not just hours (as has been mentioned before) that could be a significant benefit over the guy who has mostly flown VFR in the vicinity of the airport to drop jumpers, and possibly over the CFI who probably has less X-country and IFR time.
- They have never had a flying job before: flying has been something they do when they want because they want to. How will they adjust to flying as part of a daily grind, based on someone else's schedule and needs.
- If they can afford to buy and fly their own plane, how likely is it that they will put up with the low pay, long hours, and often poor working conditions that usually come with low level pilot jobs? What will keep them here instead of just going back to flying recreationally?
- Depending on their other work experience (if they have any), do they have a track record demonstrating the traits desired in any employee: dependability, reliability, are they hard working?
However, if you're smart, you'll have much more x-country, night, and IMC than the CFI or diver driver. If you're getting good IFR time, shooting more challenging instrument approaches into more challenging airports and use the time to build experience, not just hours (as has been mentioned before) that could be a significant benefit over the guy who has mostly flown VFR in the vicinity of the airport to drop jumpers, and possibly over the CFI who probably has less X-country and IFR time.
02-24-2011, 06:44 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Oh No You Can't!
This will get you violated, the FAA only allows dual-given for legitimate training purposes, not time building. Training for these sorts of things is legal:
Certs/ratings/privileges
Currency
Proficiency
Aircraft checkout
Rental Checkout
Area/Route familiarization
Insurance checkouts
If you GIVE dual on an airplane, there are few circumstances where you can then turn around and receive dual in the same airplane...examples might be a 141 annual flight check, an area/route fam such as a mountain flying course, or a FR.
But you don't want a logbook full of switch-hitter dual-given...employers will probably not find it amusing either.
This will get you violated, the FAA only allows dual-given for legitimate training purposes, not time building. Training for these sorts of things is legal:
Certs/ratings/privileges
Currency
Proficiency
Aircraft checkout
Rental Checkout
Area/Route familiarization
Insurance checkouts
If you GIVE dual on an airplane, there are few circumstances where you can then turn around and receive dual in the same airplane...examples might be a 141 annual flight check, an area/route fam such as a mountain flying course, or a FR.
But you don't want a logbook full of switch-hitter dual-given...employers will probably not find it amusing either.
02-24-2011, 06:50 PM
#29
Respek
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,603
A lot of times CFI's don't fly when the weather is marginal. That leaves us to banner towing which is VFR and pipeline flying also being VFR. I really can't for see being a rec flier as a bad thing if you build the night, IMC, x-country flying.
02-25-2011, 04:08 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,282
My friends who had access to a light twin during and after our flight training got better jobs much faster than the rest of us.
If you can afford it, do it.
Being a newly commercial pilot is very challenging... for the most part your hours are too low to get a job, and renting a plane is ridiculously expensive. It's either CFI, buy a plane, or get really lucky (like I did).
If you can afford it, do it.
Being a newly commercial pilot is very challenging... for the most part your hours are too low to get a job, and renting a plane is ridiculously expensive. It's either CFI, buy a plane, or get really lucky (like I did).
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