Neptune Aviation
08-06-2013, 01:41 PM
#54
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: I was...inverted.
Posts: 69
So, why has nobody tried to develop the S-3 Viking into a firebomber? I had heard that there were some tests/evals done. What was the result?
What is wrong with purchasing a few CL-215's to do the job. They have been successful in other parts of the world. If operated only on land pilots would not need MES rating.
What is wrong with purchasing a few CL-215's to do the job. They have been successful in other parts of the world. If operated only on land pilots would not need MES rating.
08-06-2013, 04:07 PM
#55
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,026
The USFS put out a solicitation today for a "scooper" contract; based on the criteria it will need to be a CL-415.
CL-215's and 215T's are already operated in the US on fires. Nobody is going to hire a pilot into a CL215 without a multi sea rating, and ample multi sea experience. Aeroflite out of Kingman operates the largest fleet of them in the US. Several states carry their own contracts for several CL215's.
The USFS is presently looking at the C27 down the line, but as it stands, even the current aircraft assigned "next gen" contracts aren't available.
Evergreen, which was awarded a CWN contract for it's 747 at the beginning of July, still doesn't have the aircraft airworthy (no engines, no C check), and it won't be ready to fight fire this season. Of the other next gen equipment, only Coulsons C-130 is close to being operational. None have air tanker board approval, or have completed drop or cup tests, or FAA approval.
CL-215's and 215T's are already operated in the US on fires. Nobody is going to hire a pilot into a CL215 without a multi sea rating, and ample multi sea experience. Aeroflite out of Kingman operates the largest fleet of them in the US. Several states carry their own contracts for several CL215's.
The USFS is presently looking at the C27 down the line, but as it stands, even the current aircraft assigned "next gen" contracts aren't available.
Evergreen, which was awarded a CWN contract for it's 747 at the beginning of July, still doesn't have the aircraft airworthy (no engines, no C check), and it won't be ready to fight fire this season. Of the other next gen equipment, only Coulsons C-130 is close to being operational. None have air tanker board approval, or have completed drop or cup tests, or FAA approval.
12-13-2013, 07:50 PM
#56
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,026
As stated before, Neptune is supplying more BAE-146's on an increasing, yearly basis, and was just awarded a sole-source contract to do so. Also as stated before, the USFS has no confidence in most of the "nextgen" contracts that were let earlier this year.
Neptune, they have confidence in.
From Wildfire Today's aviationfire.com:
Neptune, they have confidence in.
From Wildfire Today's aviationfire.com:
Today the U.S. Forest Service awarded a sole source contract to Neptune Aviation to supply two next-generation air tankers for the next four to nine years beginning in 2014. The estimated value of the contract is $142,000,000 and has a base period of four years with the possibility of adding five more. The hourly rate begins at about $8,000 and increases to about $12,000 by the end of nine years.
For the contract, Neptune is expected to use two BAe-146 airliners that are being converted to 3,000-gallon next-generation air tankers. Some of the requirements to qualify as next-gen are that they are turbine or turbofan (jet) powered, can cruise at 300 knots (345 mph), and have a retardant capacity of at least 3,000 gallons. Those two Neptune aircraft would be in addition to the first two BAe-146s they converted which have been active on a “legacy” air tanker contract this year.
Issuing a sole source contract is much more unusual than allowing multiple companies to submit bids. To only consider one source, the federal government has to provide justification, and in this case they used the “industrial mobilization exception”, which includes a necessity to “keep vital facilities or suppliers in business or make them available in the event of a national emergency, or prevent the loss of a supplier’s ability and employees’ skills”.
On May 6, 2013 the U.S. Forest Service announced their intention to award contracts for five companies to supply seven next-gen air tankers. Neptune was not selected, and the company filed a protest with the Government Accountability Office. The reasons Neptune was left out of that contract, according to information Fire Aviation has received, could have been their problems providing consistent retardant drop patterns with their new BAe-146 tank, and, one of the considerations in awarding the contract was crash history. This year Neptune has been working to improve the tanks and said that by 2014 their BAe-146s would all have modified versions of the tank system.
The protest halted the awarding of the contracts and put the process in limbo until May 30 when actual signed contracts were finally issued to three companies for three air tankers, which the contracting officers felt were not affected by the protest:
10 Tanker Air Carrier for one of their two DC-10s
Minden Air Corp for a BAe-146
Coulson Aircrane (USA) for a C-130Q
Then suddenly on June 7 Neptune withdrew their protest which allowed the contracts for the remaining four aircraft to be awarded to:
Aero Air, for two MD87s
Aero Flite, for two Avro RJ85s
The awarding of the final next-gen contracts came 555 days after the USFS issued the first solicitation for the aircraft.
Only two of those seven air tankers have been constructed and have passed the certification requirements of the FAA and the Interagency AirTanker Board — the DC-10 and the C-130Q. The other five missed their contractual start dates. In September the USFS issued “cure notices” to the three companies. They responded to the USFS indicating the aircraft would be available between April and June, 2014.
In the sole source justification for the new Neptune contract the USFS wrote they are “not confident that five of the seven contracted NextGen airtankers will be available to fight fires in 2014″.
When Neptune suddenly dropped their protest of the next-gen contract in June neither the company nor the USFS would disclose the reason. There was speculation Neptune felt confident at that time there would be a development later in their favor.
For the contract, Neptune is expected to use two BAe-146 airliners that are being converted to 3,000-gallon next-generation air tankers. Some of the requirements to qualify as next-gen are that they are turbine or turbofan (jet) powered, can cruise at 300 knots (345 mph), and have a retardant capacity of at least 3,000 gallons. Those two Neptune aircraft would be in addition to the first two BAe-146s they converted which have been active on a “legacy” air tanker contract this year.
Issuing a sole source contract is much more unusual than allowing multiple companies to submit bids. To only consider one source, the federal government has to provide justification, and in this case they used the “industrial mobilization exception”, which includes a necessity to “keep vital facilities or suppliers in business or make them available in the event of a national emergency, or prevent the loss of a supplier’s ability and employees’ skills”.
On May 6, 2013 the U.S. Forest Service announced their intention to award contracts for five companies to supply seven next-gen air tankers. Neptune was not selected, and the company filed a protest with the Government Accountability Office. The reasons Neptune was left out of that contract, according to information Fire Aviation has received, could have been their problems providing consistent retardant drop patterns with their new BAe-146 tank, and, one of the considerations in awarding the contract was crash history. This year Neptune has been working to improve the tanks and said that by 2014 their BAe-146s would all have modified versions of the tank system.
The protest halted the awarding of the contracts and put the process in limbo until May 30 when actual signed contracts were finally issued to three companies for three air tankers, which the contracting officers felt were not affected by the protest:
10 Tanker Air Carrier for one of their two DC-10s
Minden Air Corp for a BAe-146
Coulson Aircrane (USA) for a C-130Q
Then suddenly on June 7 Neptune withdrew their protest which allowed the contracts for the remaining four aircraft to be awarded to:
Aero Air, for two MD87s
Aero Flite, for two Avro RJ85s
The awarding of the final next-gen contracts came 555 days after the USFS issued the first solicitation for the aircraft.
Only two of those seven air tankers have been constructed and have passed the certification requirements of the FAA and the Interagency AirTanker Board — the DC-10 and the C-130Q. The other five missed their contractual start dates. In September the USFS issued “cure notices” to the three companies. They responded to the USFS indicating the aircraft would be available between April and June, 2014.
In the sole source justification for the new Neptune contract the USFS wrote they are “not confident that five of the seven contracted NextGen airtankers will be available to fight fires in 2014″.
When Neptune suddenly dropped their protest of the next-gen contract in June neither the company nor the USFS would disclose the reason. There was speculation Neptune felt confident at that time there would be a development later in their favor.
12-13-2013, 11:17 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: LAMA/P180/747
Posts: 427
^^^Good news for Neptune, thks for posting this new info.
http://fireaviation.com/2013/12/12/u...ct-to-neptune/
http://fireaviation.com/2013/12/12/u...ct-to-neptune/
Last edited by NoJoy; 12-13-2013 at 11:30 PM.
10-08-2014, 11:37 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
For those considering tanker work, from earlier today:
Up until 18:21 PDT, that was an S-2T fighting the Dog Rock Fire.
Up until 18:21 PDT, that was an S-2T fighting the Dog Rock Fire.
They have done an awesome job protecting our communities this year, what a heart breaking way to end this season…
SP
10-08-2014, 03:27 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
For those considering tanker work, from earlier today:
Up until 18:21 PDT, that was an S-2T fighting the Dog Rock Fire.
Up until 18:21 PDT, that was an S-2T fighting the Dog Rock Fire.
May the pilot RIP.
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