question for a piedmont pilot
02-18-2007, 02:16 PM
#81
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: F/O
Posts: 22
Did I say anything about going BELOW mins....no I didn't. Basically, I was throwing real world scenarios out there that happen every once in a while when the weather is crap for a few days.
Being practical or having common sense is something that comes with experience, not just reading a book. You can't tell me that you don't need your "A" game on when flying into roanoke on a minimums day. Whereas, in someplace like Nantucket there's no obstacles, mountains around; you have a little more room for error before it truly becomes a dire situation. That should be factored into your decision making process!
In that scenario where the altimeters are not concurrent, say reading 30 feet apart; when you see DA on your side and 30 feet to go on his, what do you do? Me personally, I continue to his altimeter reading. I think it's SAFER to do that than do unnessarily commence a missed approach, especially if your doing the ILS 33 into ROA where there's a mountain literally at the departure end of the runway.
Never did I say that going below mins is OK. That is one's own personal, ethical decision to make. What I do mean though is that when ToiletDuck gets to the airlines if he's always quoting this says this and that says that, it'll be like a Top40's song that gets old real quick. What's he going to do when something minor happens and the captain doesn't want to write it up until we get back to the "hub" or "mx base"? How's that different than the practical "real world" situation that I had mentioned prior?
Cheers
Being practical or having common sense is something that comes with experience, not just reading a book. You can't tell me that you don't need your "A" game on when flying into roanoke on a minimums day. Whereas, in someplace like Nantucket there's no obstacles, mountains around; you have a little more room for error before it truly becomes a dire situation. That should be factored into your decision making process!
In that scenario where the altimeters are not concurrent, say reading 30 feet apart; when you see DA on your side and 30 feet to go on his, what do you do? Me personally, I continue to his altimeter reading. I think it's SAFER to do that than do unnessarily commence a missed approach, especially if your doing the ILS 33 into ROA where there's a mountain literally at the departure end of the runway.
Never did I say that going below mins is OK. That is one's own personal, ethical decision to make. What I do mean though is that when ToiletDuck gets to the airlines if he's always quoting this says this and that says that, it'll be like a Top40's song that gets old real quick. What's he going to do when something minor happens and the captain doesn't want to write it up until we get back to the "hub" or "mx base"? How's that different than the practical "real world" situation that I had mentioned prior?
Cheers
02-18-2007, 04:09 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: DHC-8 FO
Posts: 150
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
Did I say anything about going BELOW mins....no I didn't. Basically, I was throwing real world scenarios out there that happen every once in a while when the weather is crap for a few days.
Being practical or having common sense is something that comes with experience, not just reading a book. You can't tell me that you don't need your "A" game on when flying into roanoke on a minimums day. Whereas, in someplace like Nantucket there's no obstacles, mountains around; you have a little more room for error before it truly becomes a dire situation. That should be factored into your decision making process!
In that scenario where the altimeters are not concurrent, say reading 30 feet apart; when you see DA on your side and 30 feet to go on his, what do you do? Me personally, I continue to his altimeter reading. I think it's SAFER to do that than do unnessarily commence a missed approach, especially if your doing the ILS 33 into ROA where there's a mountain literally at the departure end of the runway.
Never did I say that going below mins is OK. That is one's own personal, ethical decision to make. What I do mean though is that when ToiletDuck gets to the airlines if he's always quoting this says this and that says that, it'll be like a Top40's song that gets old real quick. What's he going to do when something minor happens and the captain doesn't want to write it up until we get back to the "hub" or "mx base"? How's that different than the practical "real world" situation that I had mentioned prior?
Cheers
Being practical or having common sense is something that comes with experience, not just reading a book. You can't tell me that you don't need your "A" game on when flying into roanoke on a minimums day. Whereas, in someplace like Nantucket there's no obstacles, mountains around; you have a little more room for error before it truly becomes a dire situation. That should be factored into your decision making process!
In that scenario where the altimeters are not concurrent, say reading 30 feet apart; when you see DA on your side and 30 feet to go on his, what do you do? Me personally, I continue to his altimeter reading. I think it's SAFER to do that than do unnessarily commence a missed approach, especially if your doing the ILS 33 into ROA where there's a mountain literally at the departure end of the runway.
Never did I say that going below mins is OK. That is one's own personal, ethical decision to make. What I do mean though is that when ToiletDuck gets to the airlines if he's always quoting this says this and that says that, it'll be like a Top40's song that gets old real quick. What's he going to do when something minor happens and the captain doesn't want to write it up until we get back to the "hub" or "mx base"? How's that different than the practical "real world" situation that I had mentioned prior?
Cheers
Well I agree with all that... maybe I misinterpreted what you were getting at with that whole argument. I see what you're saying now.
I'm used to giant douches who are really, really shady about everything and justify everything by just saying "this is the real world, man..get with the program"...while everyone else around is looking at him like, 'ok dude, you do that...' you know what i mean...no disrespect
02-21-2007, 08:30 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Flying a Desk
Posts: 197
Originally Posted by lear24
Does anyone else hear that duck sound while reading Toiletduck's posts insisting that a report be made to the FAA?
It sounds like "NARK!... NARK!... NARK!!"
You'd think it'd be more like a quack than a nark sound.
It sounds like "NARK!... NARK!... NARK!!"
You'd think it'd be more like a quack than a nark sound.
02-21-2007, 08:48 PM
#85
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
As I can see you are an instructor. How much real actual IFR do you really have? It doesn't seem as you have much because you keep on stating regs or aim recommendations, rather than giving real world experiences.
And so you know you couldn't be more wrong about your assumptions. The original post thought they were 350 below mins and way off course running all over the place to get back with families in the rear. That's a no no. Don't paint a label and a tattle tale because of a concern over something like that. I never said anyone was guilty of anything. What I said was if the pilot truely saw what he thinks he saw he should say something. If nothing happened then nothing happened. This isn't going 260kias when it's 250. Or flying 150ft off your altitude when you've got 100. Or coming in fast, hot, long ect. All of those are in wide open areas. Low and slow messing around isn't good. I wasn't there. If you saw two guys go into a store, then hear gunshots. Wouldn't you call the police and tell them what you saw and heard. You have no idea if the guys you just gave descriptions of did it, but you'd give their desciptions anyway. You see two pilot do something with pax in the back. If you aren't sure. He should make the call. Then someone will find out. But if you never call sooner or later they might not get away with it then you're stuck wondering if you could have changed things. It's completely up to the poster. Just voicing my opinion like my family was on it.
Last edited by ToiletDuck; 02-21-2007 at 09:57 PM.
02-21-2007, 09:02 PM
#86
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 747 Cap
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by racers2207
Visibility is the controlling factor on an approach, not ceiling. As long as you have the visibility to shoot the approach, you can try. There is always the possibility that the pilot's had the runway in sight at minimums and continued the approach. I wouldn't go hauling off and passing judgment if you don't have all the facts. No one besides the pilots on that plane knows what they saw.
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