ToiletDuck

Yes but it has to be a descent. You aren't allowed to descend some, then level out, then do a circle to land, then start descending again. You have to be in a constant descent. Me a troll. Did you figure out what a license is for yet and why you have to have it?

sflpilot

How do you mean? I will say that I know people at the FAA in different capacities and it is a pretty dysfunctional and unorganized place from what I have heard. I don't think they have as much time on their hands as people think they do. In the PDT situation I don't doubt there could be problems, but I was refering to the anonymous hotline stuff in general.

fosters

I never said you could level out - but what you posted (you can't descend midfield downwind) isn't true either.

Yet you haven't provided any meaningful posts to date...OK bud. Aren't you the guy who thinks that the CFI certificate is a rating?

Here, I found it:

In the CFI & 121 thread.

It has ratings, ie Flight Instructor - Instrument & Multi-engine, but it's a certificate. But that's neither here nor there - it has no bearing on this argument.

Stop typing, start reading.


What I find humorous is every single argument you have made on this thread is done with taking someone else's word for it. Why you are arguing against the crew baffles me - you have no idea what went down.

ToiletDuck

EVERYTHING IS A CERTIFICATE.. A commecial license is a certificate. A rating is a CERTIFICATE. Just like a camero and a charger are both cars. However your commercial certificate is a LICENSE and your CFI certificate is a RATING.
Yes I am the guy that things the CFI certificate is a rating.

Regardless, you are NOT allowed to descend below circle to land minimums just because you have the runway environment in sight. You have to make a constant descent to landing using normal maneuvers. You can't level off just because you're now in VFR conditions unless you managed to cancel your flight plan then come in the rest of the way VFR.

fosters

Well, that's not how the FAA refers to them in the FAR's, but feel free to call them whatever you want.

Hey thanks CA obvious. You have no idea if the crew did this. That would like me saying "it's illegal to fly an airworthy airplane". Well duh.

ToiletDuck

You're 100% right. Anything beyond 30 degree from the centerline of the runway kicks you up to circling mins automatically. I was looking at what constitutes the "landing environment" and it's a 30degree section from the centerline. Anything beyond that is not the landing environment thus raising the mins to circle to land minimums. Only in the 30degree area are you guaranteed obstacle clearance lower than the circling to land minimums. So I guess you don't HAVE to stay at circle to land mins till at that point but if it's that shady of conditions you'd be a fool not to. I've never flown a plane where you start a descent on a midfield downwind and 500ft agl. That's one VERY tiny descent and you'd have to be flying on really tight pattern which doesn't seem normal.

fosters

But you assume all circling approaches have 500' MDA's on them - which is where you've gone wrong.

ToiletDuck

But it's not...

They are both certificates. They both state you've qualified. The commercial LICENSE states you can fly commercially. The CFI RATING means you are rated to teach. duh. And no the FAA does not call the CFI a license except in casual "a license to teach".

And no i didn't assume they all have 500agl. Some have lower. Some higher. None of which I've seen that are higher than a regular pattern altitude. That's where I based "normal maneuvers" from.

fosters

Let me get this straight - you're using the definition of a certificate from a dictionary? HAHA that's a good one.

I use the FAR's, ToiletDuck uses a dictionary. Now I guess I see why you've had so much trouble!

You and SAAB's argument in the CFI/121 thread was what you are quoting from a dictionary - yet the FAA bases it's stuff on what's in the FAR's.

Here's one to get your juices flowing:
DRO VOR Approach

MDA of 1195' AGL, pattern would be 1000'. That's just one off of the top of my head, but it proves your theory wrong, so good enough for me.

ToiletDuck

Patterns only 1k in pistons. What if in kingairs, merlins, boeings, rjs ect?

The 30degree bit isn't a rule. I guess it's just a rule of thumb yet. In that cone you get lower minimums. If you come into a pattern at circling minimums then drop down some on the downwind you're in the danger zone. You're slow, low, and the second you start that tight bank to final you're going to have an increased stall speed. It might be legal on that part. But it isn't a nomal descent to land. You don't start midfield downwind. If you start past the numbers while moving 130-140kts chances are you're already in that 30 degree cone. If you do decide to leave the circling mins while not on base to final one day we'll be picking up the parts.

And what? You think the FAA rewrites the definitions of some words? Use an aviation dictionary if you'd like.