fenix1

If a pilot sought a career with American as their destination/career airline, is PSA - as American's wholly-owned carrier - the worst possible regional they could work for?

My theory is that the progressively-deepening pilot shortage is driving the major/legacy airlines to create "systems" in which they can manage the pilots (i.e., balance between regional & mainline) as they see fit to do as much cheap flying as possible, so - in flow/agreement scenarios with a wholly-owned regional - pilots who are part of the wholly-owned regional won't get to the mainline carrier as fast as they would by applying from outside the "system." Thoughts??

I have no Part 121 experience so I would love nothing more than for the folks who have done some turns to correct me if this is a bad/incorrect way of thinking.

DoNoHarm

Look at how many non-military and non-flow Pilots AA is hiring, and then look at the number of these guys are coming from the AA WO outside of the flow. Maybe 1 or 2 per class. Maybe.

We have sent several pilots outside of the flow to AA, and I know that Envoy has as well. Several were Chief Pilots or Recruiters, and most were LCAs. Statistically, you have a better chance of getting hired by AA outside of the flow while working at a WO than off of the street.

If you go elsewhere (non-military) your chance of getting hired by AA is less than 1%.

If you go to a WO, your chance of getting to AA is almost 100%.

As times get tougher, AA will still need their WO more than ever. They will need them staffed. One way of doing this is to guarantee a mainline job. If they stopped that, no one would go to a WO.

Expect flow to increase as times get tougher, not decrease. The WO will lose a certain number of pilots every month. They will either go to AA, or they will go to another Major. If flow slows, attrition will stay the same, but AA will lose that many more pilots from the system. That would not be beneficial.

272922

One of these days these razor sharp MBAs in the Metroplex will realize that they can have as many $25/hour new minted Riddle R-ATP RJ FOs as they can stand......

......on a mainline list.

fenix1

DNH, that's great statistical analysis that tells a story for sure - thank you. Would your thoughts change at all given than I'm ~2 years from a regional and will be in my early 40's when I get to a regional?

272922

My personal guess (worth exactly what you paid for it) is that no one knows what the segment of the industry is going to look like in two years, either from a pilot supply perspective (see my above post) or a potential economic downturn perspective. The world will inevitably change.

Just keep doing what you're doing and the airlines will still be here in some form or fashion when you're ready.

bababouey

Plenty of people get hired outside the flow, make yourself stand out and you’ll get an interview.


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bigtime209

I wouldn't say plenty. In 2017 only 60 pilots were hired that weren't either military or flows from the WOs. It's not impossible, but like you say, you really have to stand out.

DoNoHarm

Of those 60, several were from WO outside of the flow.

WhiteMorpheus

Early 40's plus 8 years to flow (hopefully a gross overstatement) is still 50ish, giving you 15 years at AA and a pretty good career.

Nothing in our flow agreement prevents going to mainline outside the flow, but those who attempt that need to have all the correct credentials for mainline (whatever those are at any given time).

Your lead time of two years is when the mainline mandatory retirements really start to peak with really high numbers through 2021, or so. When the retirements hit full swing, I would expect off-the-street interviews/hires to include increased competition from pilots at LCCs that see a glimpse of hope for a career at a major. If that's true, OAL hires will tend more toward the Spirit, JetBlue, and Allegiant types who, unsurprisingly, probably mostly came from non-WO regionals. I've never heard any of our pilots talking about going to one of those LCCs and missing out on the flow opportunity to AA we have. All that to say, if you go to a non-WO, don't rule out the possibility of having an additional job change before making the majors. Definitely check out the forums for the other regionals to see where their pilots go when they move on.

Some of us are hoping for a huge shift in the way the WOs are organized and their relationship to AA mainline in the next few years. We hope to get assigned AA seniority numbers, perhaps even with a pay and/or benefits package increase to go with them.

It seems like even the military hiring done by mainline is very selective. That group of 200, or so, and the roughly 30 pilots hired from non-WOs each year are the only ones that I see suffering from WO Pilots getting AA seniority numbers. I, and many other military guys and gals are still "doing our time" at the regionals because we don't meet the mainline selection criteria. If the only problem with a "great stapling" is a lack of consideration for pilots that could have gone directly to mainline, there could easily be provisions for an RJ lock that protects that prior experience.
(Example: have a 4000 hour RJ aircraft lock, adjusted based on PIC time in qualifying aircraft. A new hire with no 121 experience who upgrades to CA at 1000hrs would need to get 1500 hrs RJ PIC to break the seat lock 4000-1500=2500 RJ time, while a C-17 pilot with 8000hrs as PIC might have no lock at all. Those with enough prior experience would be "stuck" on the RJ only until their seniority could hold anything else)

This industry is always changing. The 2 years until you interview could be long enough to see something like this happen or the house of cards could come crashing down again. If you're lucky, a proposal like mine would be in serious discussion when you interview, only awaiting final consensus from all parties. You'd interview at a WO regional, start class, and then find yourself on the AA seniority list. It's probably all just a pipe dream, but a guy can hope.

fenix1

What kind of things does a regional pilot need to do/accomplish to stand out to the Big 3 and get an interview & job offer???:
- Build as much TPIC time as possible & fly as much as possible overall each month?
- Is it huge to be a LCA and/or CP? (Or is this counter-productive because LCA & CP's don't fly as much as line CA's?)
- Volunteer and/or mentorship involvement?
- I have a Bachelors degree; should I plan on pursuing a Masters?
- What else?? It seems tough to stand out when so many regional pilots will have strong qualifications so I'm grateful for anyone who is good enough to highlight those things that need to be done to maximize opportunities with the Big 3.