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-   -   Another pay comparison for new hires (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/psa-airlines/118951-another-pay-comparison-new-hires.html)

WhiteMorpheus 01-07-2019 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by PleaseComplete (Post 2738602)
The biggest problem IMHO is the tiers not the idea.

Maybe some mathy type can figure out the amount of hours available per month divided by the amount of people that will be able to bid and hold more than 85 hrs. I'm going to guess the percentage is not that high.

That is why we need trip and duty rigs. This could actually work more in our favor if we had decent trip and duty rigs. More and achievable tiers also.

As it stands now... as you said it seems the company is three steps ahead of the Union. I wish it wasn't so US vs THEM... of course we will always differ on what is and what should be but as you also said - we were already solidly mid tier on pay and with everyone else making gains and us arguably going backwards we are solidly trending to the bottom...
My December award would have been 99.7 hrs credit using industry standard trip rig, but was mid 80s without. I'd have made 87.5 hrs under our tier system or 109.5 with duty rig and our new tiers.

savedbythevnav 01-08-2019 09:50 AM
Originally Posted by irrelevant (Post 2737228)
Under the old system, which remains in effect until the changes are implemented, pilots could drop down to 65 hours of credit monthly, then pick up from open time for a minimum of 125% for every hour of credit above 65.

Under the new system, that is pending implementation, every pilot will only get paid straight time for hours flown between 65 and 75, then 125% for 75-85 hours, and 150% for hours above 85. It will benefit those who fly a lot, and never work the system, and further deincentivize those who work 65 hours a month from flying more.
That seems extremely cucked. It wasn't quite what I was thinking, however. Our system is based on reserve staffing so a couple weeks out, the trip pays 115%. Then eventually 130%. Withing 120 hours it pays 150% but the kicker is a reserve can proffer for the trip 5 days out so there's a very short window to snag the 150%. CS usually pulls it off the trip anyway so you'll need to call and argue to get it.

Your new system seems like a bad deal unless you don't care about being at home with your family and block 100 a month.

Irishblackbird 01-08-2019 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by PleaseComplete (Post 2738602)
The biggest problem IMHO is the tiers not the idea.

Maybe some mathy type can figure out the amount of hours available per month divided by the amount of people that will be able to bid and hold more than 85 hrs. I'm going to guess the percentage is not that high.

That is why we need trip and duty rigs. This could actually work more in our favor if we had decent trip and duty rigs. More and achievable tiers also.

As it stands now... as you said it seems the company is three steps ahead of the Union. I wish it wasn't so US vs THEM... of course we will always differ on what is and what should be but as you also said - we were already solidly mid tier on pay and with everyone else making gains and us arguably going backwards we are solidly trending to the bottom...
It would nice if they just made us competitive with the hourly rates, instead of coming up with hocus-pocus ways of paying us to do more work while not really benefitting us. Guarantee their problems of getting people to cover open time would go away quick.

Thedude86 01-08-2019 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Irishblackbird (Post 2739165)
It would nice if they just made us competitive with the hourly rates, instead of coming up with hocus-pocus ways of paying us to do more work while not really benefitting us. Guarantee their problems of getting people to cover open time would go away quick.
This is one of many reasons why I think the company is 3 steps ahead of us. We might be filling classes now, but eventually... whether it’s classes starting to dry up or they want us to go to PBS... the company knows they’ll have to raise pay at some point in the future.

This new agreement will make those future pay raises close to cost neutral or at least very negligible compared to our present pay and contract.

PleaseComplete 01-08-2019 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by Irishblackbird (Post 2739165)
It would nice if they just made us competitive with the hourly rates, instead of coming up with hocus-pocus ways of paying us to do more work while not really benefitting us. Guarantee their problems of getting people to cover open time would go away quick.
Many ways to skin a cat... I can see the idea as being sound - reward people who want to work.

The tiers are kind of meh and the top end reward is kind of meh too. I take that back... they aspire to be meh.

So yea, could have went about it in a different way. This way could work if the tiers were different IMHO and/or backed by industry standard rigs would be even better IMHO.

FlyyGuyy 01-09-2019 05:02 AM
Originally Posted by PleaseComplete (Post 2739181)
Many ways to skin a cat... I can see the idea as being sound - reward people who want to work.

The tiers are kind of meh and the top end reward is kind of meh too. I take that back... they aspire to be meh.

So yea, could have went about it in a different way. This way could work if the tiers were different IMHO and/or backed by industry standard rigs would be even better IMHO.
Remember y'all, we are the most respected regional carrier

Thedude86 01-09-2019 06:49 AM
Originally Posted by FlyyGuyy (Post 2739413)
Remember y'all, we are the most respected regional carrier
I like how on the employee site the latest company message states

“LOA #12 represents a true departure from the rest of the regional airline industry methodology regarding pilot pay, that we believe sets us apart in a positive way” then goes on to talk about the definition of “block to block” starting at door close and parking brake release.... uhhhhhh..... it would be easier to name the airlines that don’t use this method.

Then they talk about the new tier system that pays us less than what we currently have which was already severely lagging behind industry standard.

I would love to hear their definition of “most respected” and “a true departure from the rest of the regional airline industry”. Everyone else is in 2019 and we’re going back to 2014

DarkSideMoon 01-09-2019 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by Irishblackbird (Post 2739165)
It would nice if they just made us competitive with the hourly rates, instead of coming up with hocus-pocus ways of paying us to do more work while not really benefitting us. Guarantee their problems of getting people to cover open time would go away quick.
No company wants to raise hourly rates because then they’re locked in. Let’s say the economy takes a dump and now all of a sudden everyone is getting min guarantee lines. Under a tiered system, pilot costs go down because less people are flying into those higher paying tiers. With a pay raise, there’s no way to cut costs without a concessionary agreement.

Otterbox 01-10-2019 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 2739486)
I like how on the employee site the latest company message states

“LOA #12 represents a true departure from the rest of the regional airline industry methodology regarding pilot pay, that we believe sets us apart in a positive way” then goes on to talk about the definition of “block to block” starting at door close and parking brake release.... uhhhhhh..... it would be easier to name the airlines that don’t use this method.

Then they talk about the new tier system that pays us less than what we currently have which was already severely lagging behind industry standard.

I would love to hear their definition of “most respected” and “a true departure from the rest of the regional airline industry”. Everyone else is in 2019 and we’re going back to 2014
Does this mean you can stop with the push 10 and hold stuff?

WhiteMorpheus 01-10-2019 05:33 AM
Originally Posted by Otterbox (Post 2740087)
Does this mean you can stop with the push 10 and hold stuff?
I thougt I read "with intention of getting underway" or something that implied we "shouldn't" just drop the parking brake to start the clock if we aren't about to push.

I'm also sure that's not how things will be done or how things are done elsewhere, and I'm sure the company is aware of that.

The brake release and door closed helps everyone's on-time departure numbers (ramp, gate, aircrew, company). The customers couldn't care less about an on-time departure, as long as we arrive on time or early. It's really a stupid metric they focus on.


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