I found this gem while browsing through the “majors” section. Its the first post on page 8 of the thread titled “end of year salary”.

It does say he was on captain pay for 3 months, but the key is he was still an FO for the other 9 months. All while still averaging 17-18 days off.

I’m on the 5 year Captain scale at PSA. I’m a lineholder and pick up SDO and this guy still has me beat. If you take away his per diem he’s at $85,683. To make that amount on 5 year captain pay at PSA... you’ll be at 93.6 hours per month. Even if you pick up SDO here at PSA thats only going to give you around 14 days off. 15 if youre lucky. When the tier system goes into effect in April you’ll only be getting around 12-14 days off to make that much at PSA.

So basically this Endeavor FIRST OFFICER is able to make as much as a 5 year line holding captain at PSA that works 4-6 days more per month. I’m about a year from flowing so I plan on sticking it out, but at least on the bright side... I wont be taking a pay cut when I flow.

For comparison, at PSA to get 17-18 days off you’ll have to SAP down to 65 or 70 hours per month. To be generous ill say 70. Even on 5 year captain pay that comes to $64,083. Thats more than $20k LESS than an Endeavor FO with the same days off.

Endeavor might not be hiring right now, but Republic, Skywest, and ExpressJet with their bonuses are all in the same ballpark.

 

the only things worse than the captain pay scales are the contract and the signing of concessionary LOAs . everyone else is going up and we are going down. its quite frustrating.

 

This.

For everyone coming here thinking pay raises are just around the corner... think again. The pay rumors have been going around for about a year, but we just had a pilot wide conference call a few weeks ago and it sounded like pay raises weren’t even being discussed. We actually already had some of the worst premium pay amongst the regionals and we just signed in a REDUCTION to that.

I’d say more than half of the FOs I’ve flown with have said they only came here for SAP and because they figured pay raises were a sure thing based on the rumors. Now they wished they would have went somewhere else, but are stuck with the bonuses they’d have to pay back.

 

Now THERE is someone struggling to find a silver lining in a cloud.

Seriously, flow programs are looking more and more like a VERY double-edged sword, designed to keep people at places with sort if bottom feeder payscales.

 

I’m trying lol.

 

Man, give it a rest. Endeavor isn’t even hiring right now..... And if one goes there, they are looking at eternal reserve. One isn’t going to make that kind of money unless they are a line holder there. Open time is none existent.....

Grass isn’t always green on the other side.....


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If you want to see something really fun check out the open time at places like Skywest, Air Whiskey, or Republic. Over there a 20 hour four day is a crap trip, and 24-25 hour four days are a dime a dozen.

It's no wonder my friend who is a bypassing First Officer (because they don't need to force upgrades) at Skywest is making easily more than me as a reserve Captain at PSA.

 

You don't think a competitor's FO making more than a 5 year Captain and having a better schedule is a problem ?

Nobody is saying to burn the place down but for Christmas sake that just isn't right.

People thinking of coming here need to know this stuff. If you don't want to keep potential candidates informed of the state of the union - fine. Just stay out of it period then.

 

I guess you are missing my point, if you are posting this to encourage folks to consider Endeavor, let me remind you.

-They aren’t hiring at the moment
-You get in now, it will be awhile before you see better schedules since most of that will be Reserve in NYC.
-Ther co-domincile in New York has decreased their QOL. Especially on reserve...Folks are over there *****ing....

Again, the grass isn’t always greener...


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If you read my entire post you’ll see that I mentioned Endeavor isn’t hiring, but Republic, ExpressJet, and Skywest are hiring. Their pay with their bonuses (that captains get also) put them in the same ballpark as Endeavor.

And of course you can’t make that kind of money on reserve. In the post I quoted it says he’s on year 2 and 3. But since you brought it up, I would argue that reserve at PSA isn’t much shorter. We’re almost to 1900 pilots with only 135 airplanes. I don’t have the exact number but we’re around 900 total lines (450 for each seat). That means about half of our pilot group is on reserve. Almost everyone is fat on pilots right now so I would say time on reserve is going to be within a few months of each other no matter where you go, with maybe the exception of expressjet.

I will say you make a decent point about the grass isn’t always greener, and Endeavor has a co-domicile in NYC. Although, I would also argue if you live in NYC you probably don’t care, and if you commute I would guess a vast majority of pilots would rather be able to one leg it to NYC compared to a 2 leg commute to one of our outstation bases even if our pay was EQUAL let alone a $40k difference. By your argument maybe I shouldn’t flow to American since most of the new hires are being sent to NYC for their first few months and they have to cover all 3 airports as well. If $40k isn’t worth it to you then what is worth it to you? The only valid argument is if you currently live in one of PSA’s bases and even then $40k is a lot to pass up.

It sounds like you’re completely fine with having some of the lowest pay in the industry since we don’t have an NYC base and everything else is just ok. Maybe that’s why we keep signing concessionary LOAs. We’re filling classes so I guess it’s ok to accept lower pay.

The only way to get any improvements here is for people to know what else is out there. Most of the cadets and RTPs I fly with had no idea what the other airlines are offering because all their information comes from our recruiters. I have several former students that are attending Purdue and they say PSA is the only airline that has recruiters show up on a regular basis. Hmmm, I wonder why......

I hate to knock down positive vibes. I prefer positivity over negativity. But in this case, if everyone at PSA had your attitude we’d be filling classes for eternity and we’d never see any improvements. I guess you’re ok with making less, but I’m not.