PSA & PDT:Industry Leading Race to the Bottom
09-05-2014, 10:02 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by saturn
I dont work at AE. My job is not in jeopardy, and neither is PDTs, nor was PSAs. I appreciate PDTs history, but should you lower the bar in 2014 of all times for jets, I stand by my claims of greed and absolute narcissism. Win new flying without having to lower the bar, that's all everyone is saying. Should you all vote NO, I will happily apologize to PDT pilots.
Where is Lee Moak now with his "stopping the race to the bottom" campaign? How does one say he wants to stop the whipsaw then allows a TA like this to go out to the pilots????
09-05-2014, 10:06 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Hot tub for now
Posts: 1,203
Originally Posted by MrObvious
It's so nice to see the rest of the industry finally realize what scumbags psa pilots are, we've been going toe to toe fighting against them for years and it always ends the same, they happily take concessions to get airplanes. Did you know the jets psa has been flying for the last decade were supposed to come to Piedmont? We were winning in every category as far as performance etc to have the jets placed here and in desperation at the 11th hour psa offered concessions to steal the jets, welcome to the party envoy grab some punch, but please don't put us in the same group as that swine
We voted no to 900's in 2007. Mesa got them.
We voted yet again in 2011. Mesa got 900's.
We voted in a new contract in 2013. Some great improvements.
I'm willing to comparing W2's to see who is a bottom feeder.
This TA we signed last year was for 900's. Nothing to do with 700's. The reason envoy is losing them is because you failed to play ball with Parker. It has nothing to do with XJT/PSA/PDT...
09-05-2014, 10:10 AM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Fopuddle
You forgot asia...
09-05-2014, 10:14 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Chupacabras
+1
Where is Lee Moak now with his "stopping the race to the bottom" campaign? How does one say he wants to stop the whipsaw then allows a TA like this to go out to the pilots????
Where is Lee Moak now with his "stopping the race to the bottom" campaign? How does one say he wants to stop the whipsaw then allows a TA like this to go out to the pilots????
09-05-2014, 10:16 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by Joliet
Saturn, are you even a pilot?
09-05-2014, 10:27 AM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 43
Not for airlines. it is because I have a family that I am willing to pursue opportunities like these.
After 10 years trying to educate people about the risks of undercutting for possible personal gain and Until people in this industry are willing to fight for decent work conditions and appropriate wages, me and my family will be provided for by a boss who cares and values our skills. Clearly we can't expect that in the US at this time. But you are right, to each their own.
After 10 years trying to educate people about the risks of undercutting for possible personal gain and Until people in this industry are willing to fight for decent work conditions and appropriate wages, me and my family will be provided for by a boss who cares and values our skills. Clearly we can't expect that in the US at this time. But you are right, to each their own.
09-05-2014, 10:46 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 1,458
I'm sick and tired of hearing all of you Envoy pilots bashing other pilot groups for your problems. You all had an opportunity to vote for an agreement that would give you all job security, but you all chose to not to accept it. The loss of your flying and aircraft are purely from your own decision not to accept the company's offer. You can not go blaming others for your own decision.
A side note, PDT stand to get a huge raise if they vote in jets. The pay will be way more than their current turboprop rate. I fail to see how that is a concession.
A side note, PDT stand to get a huge raise if they vote in jets. The pay will be way more than their current turboprop rate. I fail to see how that is a concession.
09-05-2014, 10:53 AM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 33
COMAIR - extremely senior pilot group, topped out on pay scale, shut down, airplanes spread out to ASA, Pinnacle, MESA, Chautauqua, shuttle America. REPUBLIC group votes no five years later with Comairs flying and you all praise them "WAY TO GO REPUBLIC WOO HOO, HOLD THAT LINE." Maybe PSA can fly envoys 700's and in 5 years say no and you all can praise them.
CONTINENTAL EXPRESS/EXPRESSJET - senior group, top scale, great contract. Once spun off from continental ownership CAL axed 60 jets and awarded them to Chautauqua(now republic) whom everyone praises now for voting no. Well maybe PSA can take envoys planes and in 5 years vote no and you'll praise them! NOW EXPRESSJET with the refusal of cuts is now parking an additional 35? This year and 55 ?next year.
AIR WISCONSIN - senior group, great contract United said cut pay or your done, they refused cuts United axed them faster than you can say "piedmont vote no". United then took that flying and gave it to Skywest/shuttle America/ASA. 5 years later they all vote no and they are heroes? Maybe PSA can fly envoys 700's and in 5 years vote no and they'll be praised HEROES! Only reason whiskey is alive today is because they (company) paid US to play, contract is up in 2015
does anyone see a pattern here? OH YEAH......ENVOY
ENVOY - extremely senior pilot group, top of pay scales, flying being shipped out to REPUBLIC "hey how is our miami base and flying republic, thanks for voting no and holding that line" shipped out to SKYWEST(of whom operates their US 200 flying in PHX that took MESA's flying all at a loss because it was cheaper than letting them sit in the desert....GREAT COMPANY) but they are holding that line " hey Skywest in eagle titles, how's our DFW, ORD, flying, thanks for holding that line I look forward to applying because your respected for taking our flying" shipped out to COMPASS ( oh wait they are an awesome pilot group it's ok you can have our flying and future because you guys voted in enhancements!). They got eagles flying because a new younger pilot group on the bottom of the pay scale can double their pay and still be cheaper than Envoy. "Hey compass how's our ORD flying, thanks for doing a great job holding that line, I look forward to applying there to fly the same routes I have been flying the past 20 years"
You really can't read the writing on the wall..............
- regional industry with no solid unions, 800 different carriers, the old/senior/highest paid WILL be recycled into newer younger lower pay scaled companies if they don't play by their mainline's playbook.
Wait, I know what your saying Compass, republic, ASA, etc didn't take anyone's flying it was givin to them............YOUR RIGHT! BECAUSE YOUR YOUNG AND CHEAP
PSA is a 450 pilot group, extremely young, 5% top of scale. YOUNG AND CHEAP hence 47 of Envoys planes were taken from top of scales to younger 2 year pilots. PSA pilots did not scheme together to your planes. They played by mainline's playbook to secure NEW 900's to secure their future and not wind up like the top. You forget we stood up for you guys, this industry before, voting no TWICE for 900's starting in 2006.......they took them to republic made them 175's and we furloughed, went on welfare, lived in mommas basement...but "bit hey republic thanks for holding that line with our planes awesome group love them" Then before our voting was concluded, you called us names, threatened etc etc etc, he'll you all probably convinced many of us to vote yes, why would we want to protect you any further? you guys didn't give a s@/$ about us then when we furloughed and suffered NOW all of a sudden you care?
CONTINENTAL EXPRESS/EXPRESSJET - senior group, top scale, great contract. Once spun off from continental ownership CAL axed 60 jets and awarded them to Chautauqua(now republic) whom everyone praises now for voting no. Well maybe PSA can take envoys planes and in 5 years vote no and you'll praise them! NOW EXPRESSJET with the refusal of cuts is now parking an additional 35? This year and 55 ?next year.
AIR WISCONSIN - senior group, great contract United said cut pay or your done, they refused cuts United axed them faster than you can say "piedmont vote no". United then took that flying and gave it to Skywest/shuttle America/ASA. 5 years later they all vote no and they are heroes? Maybe PSA can fly envoys 700's and in 5 years vote no and they'll be praised HEROES! Only reason whiskey is alive today is because they (company) paid US to play, contract is up in 2015
does anyone see a pattern here? OH YEAH......ENVOY
ENVOY - extremely senior pilot group, top of pay scales, flying being shipped out to REPUBLIC "hey how is our miami base and flying republic, thanks for voting no and holding that line" shipped out to SKYWEST(of whom operates their US 200 flying in PHX that took MESA's flying all at a loss because it was cheaper than letting them sit in the desert....GREAT COMPANY) but they are holding that line " hey Skywest in eagle titles, how's our DFW, ORD, flying, thanks for holding that line I look forward to applying because your respected for taking our flying" shipped out to COMPASS ( oh wait they are an awesome pilot group it's ok you can have our flying and future because you guys voted in enhancements!). They got eagles flying because a new younger pilot group on the bottom of the pay scale can double their pay and still be cheaper than Envoy. "Hey compass how's our ORD flying, thanks for doing a great job holding that line, I look forward to applying there to fly the same routes I have been flying the past 20 years"
You really can't read the writing on the wall..............
- regional industry with no solid unions, 800 different carriers, the old/senior/highest paid WILL be recycled into newer younger lower pay scaled companies if they don't play by their mainline's playbook.
Wait, I know what your saying Compass, republic, ASA, etc didn't take anyone's flying it was givin to them............YOUR RIGHT! BECAUSE YOUR YOUNG AND CHEAP
PSA is a 450 pilot group, extremely young, 5% top of scale. YOUNG AND CHEAP hence 47 of Envoys planes were taken from top of scales to younger 2 year pilots. PSA pilots did not scheme together to your planes. They played by mainline's playbook to secure NEW 900's to secure their future and not wind up like the top. You forget we stood up for you guys, this industry before, voting no TWICE for 900's starting in 2006.......they took them to republic made them 175's and we furloughed, went on welfare, lived in mommas basement...but "bit hey republic thanks for holding that line with our planes awesome group love them" Then before our voting was concluded, you called us names, threatened etc etc etc, he'll you all probably convinced many of us to vote yes, why would we want to protect you any further? you guys didn't give a s@/$ about us then when we furloughed and suffered NOW all of a sudden you care?
09-05-2014, 10:59 AM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Braniff
COMAIR - extremely senior pilot group, topped out on pay scale, shut down, airplanes spread out to ASA, Pinnacle, MESA, Chautauqua, shuttle America. REPUBLIC group votes no five years later with Comairs flying and you all praise them "WAY TO GO REPUBLIC WOO HOO, HOLD THAT LINE." Maybe PSA can fly envoys 700's and in 5 years say no and you all can praise them.
CONTINENTAL EXPRESS/EXPRESSJET - senior group, top scale, great contract. Once spun off from continental ownership CAL axed 60 jets and awarded them to Chautauqua(now republic) whom everyone praises now for voting no. Well maybe PSA can take envoys planes and in 5 years vote no and you'll praise them! NOW EXPRESSJET with the refusal of cuts is now parking an additional 35? This year and 55 ?next year.
AIR WISCONSIN - senior group, great contract United said cut pay or your done, they refused cuts United axed them faster than you can say "piedmont vote no". United then took that flying and gave it to Skywest/shuttle America/ASA. 5 years later they all vote no and they are heroes? Maybe PSA can fly envoys 700's and in 5 years vote no and they'll be praised HEROES! Only reason whiskey is alive today is because they (company) paid US to play, contract is up in 2015
does anyone see a pattern here? OH YEAH......ENVOY
ENVOY - extremely senior pilot group, top of pay scales, flying being shipped out to REPUBLIC "hey how is our miami base and flying republic, thanks for voting no and holding that line" shipped out to SKYWEST(of whom operates their US 200 flying in PHX that took MESA's flying all at a loss because it was cheaper than letting them sit in the desert....GREAT COMPANY) but they are holding that line " hey Skywest in eagle titles, how's our DFW, ORD, flying, thanks for holding that line I look forward to applying because your respected for taking our flying" shipped out to COMPASS ( oh wait they are an awesome pilot group it's ok you can have our flying and future because you guys voted in enhancements!). They got eagles flying because a new younger pilot group on the bottom of the pay scale can double their pay and still be cheaper than Envoy. "Hey compass how's our ORD flying, thanks for doing a great job holding that line, I look forward to applying there to fly the same routes I have been flying the past 20 years"
You really can't read the writing on the wall..............
- regional industry with no solid unions, 800 different carriers, the old/senior/highest paid WILL be recycled into newer younger lower pay scaled companies if they don't play by their mainline's playbook.
Wait, I know what your saying Compass, republic, ASA, etc didn't take anyone's flying it was givin to them............YOUR RIGHT! BECAUSE YOUR YOUNG AND CHEAP
PSA is a 450 pilot group, extremely young, 5% top of scale. YOUNG AND CHEAP hence 47 of Envoys planes were taken from top of scales to younger 2 year pilots. PSA pilots did not scheme together to your planes. They played by mainline's playbook to secure NEW 900's to secure their future and not wind up like the top. You forget we stood up for you guys, this industry before, voting no TWICE for 900's starting in 2006.......they took them to republic made them 175's and we furloughed, went on welfare, lived in mommas basement...but "bit hey republic thanks for holding that line with our planes awesome group love them" Then before our voting was concluded, you called us names, threatened etc etc etc, he'll you all probably convinced many of us to vote yes, why would we want to protect you any further? you guys didn't give a s@/$ about us then when we furloughed and suffered NOW all of a sudden you care?
CONTINENTAL EXPRESS/EXPRESSJET - senior group, top scale, great contract. Once spun off from continental ownership CAL axed 60 jets and awarded them to Chautauqua(now republic) whom everyone praises now for voting no. Well maybe PSA can take envoys planes and in 5 years vote no and you'll praise them! NOW EXPRESSJET with the refusal of cuts is now parking an additional 35? This year and 55 ?next year.
AIR WISCONSIN - senior group, great contract United said cut pay or your done, they refused cuts United axed them faster than you can say "piedmont vote no". United then took that flying and gave it to Skywest/shuttle America/ASA. 5 years later they all vote no and they are heroes? Maybe PSA can fly envoys 700's and in 5 years vote no and they'll be praised HEROES! Only reason whiskey is alive today is because they (company) paid US to play, contract is up in 2015
does anyone see a pattern here? OH YEAH......ENVOY
ENVOY - extremely senior pilot group, top of pay scales, flying being shipped out to REPUBLIC "hey how is our miami base and flying republic, thanks for voting no and holding that line" shipped out to SKYWEST(of whom operates their US 200 flying in PHX that took MESA's flying all at a loss because it was cheaper than letting them sit in the desert....GREAT COMPANY) but they are holding that line " hey Skywest in eagle titles, how's our DFW, ORD, flying, thanks for holding that line I look forward to applying because your respected for taking our flying" shipped out to COMPASS ( oh wait they are an awesome pilot group it's ok you can have our flying and future because you guys voted in enhancements!). They got eagles flying because a new younger pilot group on the bottom of the pay scale can double their pay and still be cheaper than Envoy. "Hey compass how's our ORD flying, thanks for doing a great job holding that line, I look forward to applying there to fly the same routes I have been flying the past 20 years"
You really can't read the writing on the wall..............
- regional industry with no solid unions, 800 different carriers, the old/senior/highest paid WILL be recycled into newer younger lower pay scaled companies if they don't play by their mainline's playbook.
Wait, I know what your saying Compass, republic, ASA, etc didn't take anyone's flying it was givin to them............YOUR RIGHT! BECAUSE YOUR YOUNG AND CHEAP
PSA is a 450 pilot group, extremely young, 5% top of scale. YOUNG AND CHEAP hence 47 of Envoys planes were taken from top of scales to younger 2 year pilots. PSA pilots did not scheme together to your planes. They played by mainline's playbook to secure NEW 900's to secure their future and not wind up like the top. You forget we stood up for you guys, this industry before, voting no TWICE for 900's starting in 2006.......they took them to republic made them 175's and we furloughed, went on welfare, lived in mommas basement...but "bit hey republic thanks for holding that line with our planes awesome group love them" Then before our voting was concluded, you called us names, threatened etc etc etc, he'll you all probably convinced many of us to vote yes, why would we want to protect you any further? you guys didn't give a s@/$ about us then when we furloughed and suffered NOW all of a sudden you care?
Well said....
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