Originally Posted by pagey (Post 1992218)

The NC told us very explicitly that the company is NOT willing to give us more as far as flow is concerned. Do you think they are lying?

Originally Posted by pagey (Post 1992218)

If the company feels they need to improve other aspects they will.

Originally Posted by Slick111 (Post 1992266)

The company went from 1 additional flow/month to "incrementally up to 8 flows per month" without us even having a vote. So while I wouldn't say they're "lying", I would point out that the industry is in a rapid state of flux,........ and management recognizes this flux.



That's exactly my point! If we vote down the TA,......... they'll need to improve the deal!

Management wants this deal as much, (if not more than ) we do! Otherwise they would not have offered it. Remember, ....... we already HAD a contract! Management was under no obligation to offer improvements to that contract. All they were required to do was to TALK about increasing the SSP. That's all! Yet management recognizes the need to make PSA more appealing to new hire pilots. Not only has management offered to double the SSP and make it a flow, they have offered other sweeteners which were not required (or even mentioned) under the existing contract! Why? Because Dougie and Dion are nice guys??

Management NEEDS a better deal as much as the pilots WANT a better deal.

Originally Posted by FirstClass (Post 1992275)

First of all, the flow is going to pass. I'm 100% positive so take the next paragraph with a grain of salt.

They will simply punish you if you vote it down lol. You'll get that special Envoy treatment. It'll take a year to get back to just the status quo. But whatever do what you want, the flow only applies to the first 500 pilots on the seniority list. Ask pilot 1200 what he thinks, trust me he doesn't care either way, is not eligible to vote in the first place, thinks 10 years is too long to flow, is here for the quick upgrade, and is already looking beyond PSA. :)

Originally Posted by FlyyGuyy (Post 1992343)

I'll be astonished if it doesn't pass. PSA and AA have zero desire to give us more in the form of flow. They are barely staffed now. Letting 10+ captains go from here now on purpose would be an epic mistake on their part. The NC isn't just a few guys from PSA volunteering, ALPA national sends pros to help out too. I am certain that nobody from ALPA or our NC would EVER leave a better flow deal on the table. They talked PSA out of several other additions to this TA that would have ****ed everyone off. Including some messed up language on street captains. What we have been offered is the best that is coming at this time. Voting it down and hoping that we continue down this path (of growth) and PSA will come back to the table with something better is misguided. They'll be back, but it isn't with good news. It'll be to tell us that AWAC is going to take the rest of the 900s or something along those lines.

Originally Posted by astec (Post 1992365)

Who cares? Let AWAC take the 900's.. This TA will be voted in, but it will be a terrible mistake. Our POS NC and Chairman sold this to the MEC/LEC leadership on a whim, and they're going to sell the crap out of it to the pilot group, just to try and help themselves get out of the craphole that is PSA and its management.

Originally Posted by astec (Post 1992365)

Who cares? Let AWAC take the 900's.. This TA will be voted in, but it will be a terrible mistake. Our POS NC and Chairman sold this to the MEC/LEC leadership on a whim, and they're going to sell the crap out of it to the pilot group, just to try and help themselves get out of the craphole that is PSA and its management.

Originally Posted by FlyyGuyy (Post 1992402)

You obviously aren't really on top of numbers for the NC are you?

This TA would actually delay the departure of the NC chair. Especially if anyone in the top 100 hops out of here on the flow. Pretty sure that's called not helping themselves out.

I like the growth, not sure what the benefit to stagnation is?

Even if the NC sold us a crap deal to help themselves, who gives a ****? Why don't you go volunteer yourself endlessly and benefit yourself (or everyone else, if you are really so selfless) instead of whining about how bad of a job someone else is doing?

It's pretty easy to criticize someone else's job when you aren't doing anything yourself.

Originally Posted by astec (Post 1992411)

Oh, when you say volunteer, you mean taking 1/2 to a full month of FPL to do 'union duties'? Making my 90+ hour guarantee sitting on my butt at home.

FWIW, I do volunteer, I don't get FPL for my union duties either. And yes, I do also sit on my butt at home, but I make my 75 hour guarantee and hardly work at all. btw, we are not short on captains, the airline can offer more flow.

Originally Posted by FlyyGuyy (Post 1992425)

not short? really...show me those numbers. must be why the reserve grid has negative requirements.

you're entitled to your opinion, but maybe you should do some research before establishing it.

Originally Posted by astec (Post 1992434)

Why have I made my own schedule the last 5 months, and worked next to nothing? I can't comment on the mothership CLT, but to be honest, I don't care about that place. Maybe if the union 'volunteers' weren't so worried about growing their precious CLT base and benefiting their own QOL, they would put more flying in other bases.

Why are CLT crews doing 1/2 the flights to and from the outstation bases every day?

Also, please show me these negative numbers.. I havent found them yet.