No Sir, where do you work at?

At ATP in Dallas. I would like you to know that there are bad pilots everywhere, and that they are not just a product of one school. What you saw happen at your location is not a common occurance. Maybe the reason that it looks like "some" of ATP's pilots cannot fly worth a s$%t, is because they put out so many pilots?. I do not have to explain fully, or go into great details on the specifics, but I know for a fact that at my location we try our best to teach good flying skills. At least I do...I have great confidence in my abilities because I try hard, and I consistantly try to fly well; additionally, I study and reread all of my books on a regular basis. I have met plenty of good pilots in the short time that I have been physically involved with aviation, some have come from ATP, and some have not. In short, I think that everyone on here should evaluate their comments about the "lack" of ability that ATP pilots possess. No matter where you get your training, it is ultimately up to each individual to become great.

All these wonder-schools dont give their students/(customers?) the big picture. That is, in the world of the regional airlines now, with upgrades so quick and hiring at such low time, being a pilot (and ultimately captain, since thats what they are hiring you to be) is way more than learning some b.s. CRJ training program from ATP so that you can get hired at 500/100, or taking FMS training from somewhere else that SELLS you their latest quick package. Its about being a LEADER. Leadership skills, decision making, and "captainship" cant be tought in a 1 week class, and must be learned over time and through the good work of great captains that understand their roll in a crazy industry (that of preparing the next guy to become a CA in addition to normal duties), and just flying in situations which challenge the mind of a leader. Guys that chase the quick upgrade at the latest and greatest op only miss out on the learning and development process into a truly good captain.

I flew 135 passenger charter in a westwind and a king air for a year before i finally wanted some stability in my job, and am so glad i chose the path i did before getting on with CHQ, even though i could have gotten on earlier with just the CFI experience I had. The experiences I gained flying with 30 year corporate captains to Panama and other various places on flights totally independent of dispatch control with varying problems really stretch the leadership abilities of a captain, and being able to learn these things from people outside of the 6-month wonder CFIs going to the regionals truly will help me down the road.

What I am trying to say is: DONT CHASE THE UPGRADE, CHASE THE EXPERIENCE! To the CFI's out there: I once wanted to fly a airline jet as quick as possible, and this was all that mattered. But remember, you have DECADES to do this, and dont pass up great opportunities to learn a great deal early on. Your career will be long, prosperous, and enriching if you make it so. Instructing is a great learning experience! So is flying piston twins in 135 ops flying checks or cargo. Make the most of what you can now! You will be far better way down the road! (and you wont look down as enviously on the guy flying the alaska bush in true pilotage as "pure" flying).

Bascially, CARPE DIEM! Aviation is a great career if you make it so, and will lead to much personal happiness if you keep the right mentality. Dwelling in the petty crap only makes your life miserable (although standing up for what is right when it comes pilot contract negotiation time is critical.)

If it sounds fun and adventerous, TAKE IT! :cool:

I'm guessing that you believe that everyone who goes to the "fast" schools, has no prior experience in life or in aviation. I beg to differ...
A few examples:
1. I was in the Navy, I was a rescue swimmer for a brief stint, a crew chief on a DC-9, and a plane captain in our squadron. I have farmed, ranched, done roofing, construction, washed dishes, and have slaved in many other fashions.
2. My instructor at ATP went to Westpoint and flew Blackhawks for 8 years in the Army.
3. Several of the other instructors and students I know, have served in various branches of the military performing various skillfull tasks.
The reason that I chose to go to ATP, was for the speed of the training. It made to much sense to me to get my career started as soon as possible. One saying that I have always heard being passed around is the one that says, "A good pilot is always learning." So why is it that going to ATP to aquire your ratings is un-desirable. Even the guys/gals that spend a year or two working on their ratings do not know everything!

I think you may make a good point. Not every ATP student is some 12-22yr old kid, fresh out of high school.

Also, I think people often assume that since people go to ATP, they automatically want to rush into that regional job. While that may be true most the time, I think there are still those others who do want to go elsewhere, and do other kinds of flying.

Hey do you know Jordan Deal he was in my xjt class?

I met some guys from Riddle CAPT program who were sharp as tacks. That program requires a 4 year degree first.

Sure do, he was an instructor here in Dallas. I was finishing up my Instrument when he came on property.

hahaha he was in my new-hire class, good guy

I don't know your Name DMP9679, but I'm headed up to KGKY April 2nd to start my PPL and ACCP. Just saw this post and began reading. I agree with you that some guys think that ATP is just for Young Guys/Gals who are just out of high school and are "Stealing" jobs from the older College educated guys. I beg the differ, I'm college educated (Delta State University B.S. Aviation Management.) I have no Problem with 19 year old who are F.O. or 23 Year old Captains. I Visited the KGKY location on the 1st of this month and if I'm not mistaken I meet a 19 year old Instructor there. Also there was an 35-40 year old instructor there. The time and focus on each student was the same. I don't get why some people think young people can't do something. For the most part I think it's that they're mad that they didn't start at such a young age. I began my Career in College flying at 18 I began my Flight Operations Degree at Delta State. I had to change my Major to Management because I didn't have the money to finish. I Know guys who graduated at 22 and are now in the Regionals. So as for having a Degree/Age I think there's no Merit for an Argument. Age/Degree have nothing to do with how well you do as a pilot. It's an Individual thing you can have a Ph.D, 37 know the FAR/AIM like the back of your and be the WORST PILOT in the world....

GET A GRIP. It's going to take me 150days to go from PPL-CFI CFII MEI. If I can do that Hats off to me, but don't be mad because it took you 4yrs.