Pretty much every regional pays their FOs the same. Some pay it through bonuses, some through straight pay. But when upgrade time is 1-1.5 years like it is at Envoy right now (this for a new hire right now who gets the 175), who gives a damn.

Captain pay at Envoy isn't great, but it isn't bad either. If you wait for the flow, 6ish years and you're at AA. It's not a bad deal. If flow allows you to hit the majors a year sooner than no-flow, then that resets any pay difference between regionals.

Editors note: I live in DFW so you'd have to pay me A LOT more to commute and not have flow. If I lived in LAX, I might think differently.
QOL first after all.

Payscale at envoy looks terrible. What about open time and premium pay?

Never go to an airline because of open time and premium pay. Look what happened to the Mesa guys...

It's something I must consider. "earning potential" haha :D

Great potential for it to cease to exist once you’re on property...

Are you being serious?

FO pay is only close to the same for the first year and even that is a stretch. FOs almost everywhere are making MORE than the all of the American wholly owned’s Captains for crying out loud. That’s not an exaggeration. Read the threads of Endeavor, Republic, SkyWest, Expressjet, Air Wisconsin, and Mesa.

This.... between my base pay rate and all the soft pay in our contract, I (FO) make more than several of my Captain friends at the AA WO’s. They’re paying dearly for the flow. By signing those agreements they just placed the crowbar right against their own contracts and gave the other end to AAG.


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I don’t know if I’d characterize the pay situation at the wholly owned regionals so harshly. To me it seems more of a short term pain for the long term gain situation. Regionals are supposed to be momentary stepping stone jobs, not career destinations. Most people should earn more in their first year at AA than they did their entire time served at whichever regional they were before. If I understand correctly, they keep their longevity for pay purposes when flowing to mainline. So going from five or six year rj pay to mainline NB pay is a HUGE pay increase.

For what it’s worth, about half of the lifers I fly with thought it was going to be a “stepping stone” job too.

I fall into that same category myself. I thought I’d serve my time then head off to greener pastures. Fifteen years later, here I am coming to terms with the fact that I’m a regional lifer. At least it’s a job with a steady paycheck. Granted, that could change overnight, but I’m not gonna sweat it until the situation changes.