Regional lifers. Why are they stuck?
03-27-2019 | 10:15 AM
#41
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I think a lot of the posters on this thread miss the mark completely...
The airlines weren’t doing too great in the year or two leading up to September 11th, 2001. That event in many ways set in motion a downward spiral for the legacies. Then age 65 happened. And then the financial crisis / housing crisis of 2007/2008. Essentially what the industry was left with was a, “lost decade”.
Pilots were essentially “stuck” where they were at. So this begs the question... Do you put your entire life on hold to wait until you make more money? Or do you go ahead and marry your wife and have kids? Buy that house you and your family wants? No career is worth putting your life on hold.
So the natural byproduct is that many pilots who often suffered from nothing other than bad timing went on about their lives. And it wasn’t until a few years ago really that entry-level wages at the legacies improved. So for most pilots with mortgages, kids in college, etc it simply was not feasible to make the jump. And now that perhaps it is feasible they have less than 10 years left and don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for the twilight of their career.
There are those who have other issues, but I have ran across far more who fit the mold above than those who have personality conflict and training/qualification issues.
The airlines weren’t doing too great in the year or two leading up to September 11th, 2001. That event in many ways set in motion a downward spiral for the legacies. Then age 65 happened. And then the financial crisis / housing crisis of 2007/2008. Essentially what the industry was left with was a, “lost decade”.
Pilots were essentially “stuck” where they were at. So this begs the question... Do you put your entire life on hold to wait until you make more money? Or do you go ahead and marry your wife and have kids? Buy that house you and your family wants? No career is worth putting your life on hold.
So the natural byproduct is that many pilots who often suffered from nothing other than bad timing went on about their lives. And it wasn’t until a few years ago really that entry-level wages at the legacies improved. So for most pilots with mortgages, kids in college, etc it simply was not feasible to make the jump. And now that perhaps it is feasible they have less than 10 years left and don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for the twilight of their career.
There are those who have other issues, but I have ran across far more who fit the mold above than those who have personality conflict and training/qualification issues.
03-27-2019 | 10:29 AM
#42
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It’s hard to say and speculate why, mostly because people for the most part are very private when it comes to their situation..maybe it was excessive training failures, DUI, or lack of a degree..unless you know someone very well, they won’t give out that info. Also it seems like the guys over 35 do not want to go to an LCC and are holding out for a legacy only which narrows their options obviously.
I would say most of the people I fly with have had their apps out a long time but for one reason or the other they never get a call for an interview and don’t understand why. Even some cka with 15 years of experience and a degree don’t get calls-luck of the draw I’d say. Some of them are older and I personally believe that’s what’s holding some back. It never sits well with them when they hear a 23-25 year old gets hired before them.
Here are the top reasons I’d say in order:
1. Don’t want to commute-like their regional base/stay for family situation
2. Have experience. Don’t get a call and have no idea why
3. Lack of flight experience, no calls.
4. No degree
5. Training failures with lack of ambition/volunteering to make up for it or they burned too many bridges.
6. DUI, arrests, all of that kind of stuff.
I think number 6 is by far the smallest in the mix. Of course personality trumps all of this if you get the interview-so it could be that as well.
It’s extremely compitive out there, if you want to move on you really need to find a way to stand out, simple as that
I would say most of the people I fly with have had their apps out a long time but for one reason or the other they never get a call for an interview and don’t understand why. Even some cka with 15 years of experience and a degree don’t get calls-luck of the draw I’d say. Some of them are older and I personally believe that’s what’s holding some back. It never sits well with them when they hear a 23-25 year old gets hired before them.
Here are the top reasons I’d say in order:
1. Don’t want to commute-like their regional base/stay for family situation
2. Have experience. Don’t get a call and have no idea why
3. Lack of flight experience, no calls.
4. No degree
5. Training failures with lack of ambition/volunteering to make up for it or they burned too many bridges.
6. DUI, arrests, all of that kind of stuff.
I think number 6 is by far the smallest in the mix. Of course personality trumps all of this if you get the interview-so it could be that as well.
It’s extremely compitive out there, if you want to move on you really need to find a way to stand out, simple as that
03-27-2019 | 10:52 AM
#43
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From regional new hire initial to major airline ground school has taken me 15.5 years. I've had MANY FO's of mine way less qualified hired by legacies with half the time. And I've done everything possible to avoid being that stagnant, lazy guy.
Took 5.5 years to upgrade at a regional. That wasn't too bad. Now I fly with 24 year olds complaining how it's BS they haven't been pulled for CA yet. Unreal.
Took 5.5 years to upgrade at a regional. That wasn't too bad. Now I fly with 24 year olds complaining how it's BS they haven't been pulled for CA yet. Unreal.
03-27-2019 | 10:54 AM
#44
Layover Master
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From: Seated
03-27-2019 | 10:59 AM
#45
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Oh, gotcha. I've flown with some great CAs who were young. Best thing about them, they're open to feedback and their egos don't get in the way. Only flew with a couple CAs with bad attitudes that figured I have my 1000TPIC, why am I still here?
03-27-2019 | 11:15 AM
#46
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Older guys such as myself do have problems with the “volunteer” stuff.
Home off a trip, fixing things around the house, driving kids to lacrosse, soccer, music. Doctor appointments. Volunteer as a coach for their team. None of that counts in the eyes of HR. Hey want Hanitat with Humanity. The young person with no responsibilities had plenty of time for that.
Like I wrote earlier, I’ve had my app looked at 3 times or more. Attended job fairs. Heck, even there as soon as you walk up and they see your age they try to get rid of you.
Home off a trip, fixing things around the house, driving kids to lacrosse, soccer, music. Doctor appointments. Volunteer as a coach for their team. None of that counts in the eyes of HR. Hey want Hanitat with Humanity. The young person with no responsibilities had plenty of time for that.
Like I wrote earlier, I’ve had my app looked at 3 times or more. Attended job fairs. Heck, even there as soon as you walk up and they see your age they try to get rid of you.
03-27-2019 | 12:28 PM
#48
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Older guys such as myself do have problems with the “volunteer” stuff.
Home off a trip, fixing things around the house, driving kids to lacrosse, soccer, music. Doctor appointments. Volunteer as a coach for their team. None of that counts in the eyes of HR. Hey want Hanitat with Humanity. The young person with no responsibilities had plenty of time for that.
Like I wrote earlier, I’ve had my app looked at 3 times or more. Attended job fairs. Heck, even there as soon as you walk up and they see your age they try to get rid of you.
Home off a trip, fixing things around the house, driving kids to lacrosse, soccer, music. Doctor appointments. Volunteer as a coach for their team. None of that counts in the eyes of HR. Hey want Hanitat with Humanity. The young person with no responsibilities had plenty of time for that.
Like I wrote earlier, I’ve had my app looked at 3 times or more. Attended job fairs. Heck, even there as soon as you walk up and they see your age they try to get rid of you.
I'm almost 51, so I assume the majors won't give me a chance. So once I'm on with a regional, I'm gonna start going after the LCC's pretty hard. At my age, and not prior military, I don't think I have a shot at the big boys.
03-27-2019 | 12:51 PM
#50
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Prior military? Seems to be the only ones they'll take at that age.
Which doesn't make that much sense as far as age is concerned. A guy in their early 50's can only fly for a dozen or so years, and will never make the big bucks that a guy in their late 20's or early 30's will make after a dozen years of service. Seems like it would be cheaper for them to hire older pilots to save on the very high salaries of pilots that will have 25-35 years of service.
Which doesn't make that much sense as far as age is concerned. A guy in their early 50's can only fly for a dozen or so years, and will never make the big bucks that a guy in their late 20's or early 30's will make after a dozen years of service. Seems like it would be cheaper for them to hire older pilots to save on the very high salaries of pilots that will have 25-35 years of service.
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