Regional lifers. Why are they stuck?
03-27-2019 | 08:08 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
It’s unsubstantiated urban legend... The same that expats will never be hired by any US legacy. It’s all BS. They either make it through the hoops, or they dont’t.
03-27-2019 | 08:14 AM
#22
Perennial Reserve
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 14,253
Likes: 257
Do you disagree?
03-27-2019 | 08:19 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,495
Likes: 298
From: 737 FO
Lots of factors but among them is the ridiculous first year wages at some of the ULCCs. There was a long discussion on this subject on a Frontier thread back when their negotiations were going on. The pilot group didn't wish to "waste" any "negotiating capital" on bringing newbie's on board. So what did the first year FO wages end up?
$58 an hour for Frontier
$57 for Spirit
$78 for JetBlue
So if you are currently making $90-100 an hour as a regional captain, WITH YOUR CHOICE OF SCHEDULES, how hard is it to take a 45% pay cut for a year and go back on reserve in some crash pad for a couple years, because your roots are too firmly planted after a decade or so to relocate? Pretty hard. Not impossible, certainly, but it's a serious emotional barrier, and the more senior (i.e., older) you are, the smaller the carrot for doing it and the greater the carrot for just staying put.
So in a way it's the major airlines' pilot union negotiating tactics that are hurting these guys, or at least making the decision to move on more complicated than it would otherwise be.
$58 an hour for Frontier
$57 for Spirit
$78 for JetBlue
So if you are currently making $90-100 an hour as a regional captain, WITH YOUR CHOICE OF SCHEDULES, how hard is it to take a 45% pay cut for a year and go back on reserve in some crash pad for a couple years, because your roots are too firmly planted after a decade or so to relocate? Pretty hard. Not impossible, certainly, but it's a serious emotional barrier, and the more senior (i.e., older) you are, the smaller the carrot for doing it and the greater the carrot for just staying put.
So in a way it's the major airlines' pilot union negotiating tactics that are hurting these guys, or at least making the decision to move on more complicated than it would otherwise be.
03-27-2019 | 08:27 AM
#24
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Gets Weekends Off
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My reply to him was, "I'm doing my job and pointing it out to you so we don't get a violation. If you don't like it, I've got the FE right here and the CVR to back me up on it." He glanced back at the FE looking at him and slowed to 250 KIAS.
Like I said, I think he did time in the slammer for tax evasion. Real POS.
03-27-2019 | 08:36 AM
#26
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03-27-2019 | 08:42 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,495
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From: 737 FO
But if you have 5000 apps from guys that are "set in their ways" and 5000 apps from guys who aren't, which pile would you pull from?
03-27-2019 | 08:43 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
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From: CRJ FO
I think a lot of the posters on this thread miss the mark completely...
The airlines weren’t doing too great in the year or two leading up to September 11th, 2001. That event in many ways set in motion a downward spiral for the legacies. Then age 65 happened. And then the financial crisis / housing crisis of 2007/2008. Essentially what the industry was left with was a, “lost decade”.
Pilots were essentially “stuck” where they were at. So this begs the question... Do you put your entire life on hold to wait until you make more money? Or do you go ahead and marry your wife and have kids? Buy that house you and your family wants? No career is worth putting your life on hold.
So the natural byproduct is that many pilots who often suffered from nothing other than bad timing went on about their lives. And it wasn’t until a few years ago really that entry-level wages at the legacies improved. So for most pilots with mortgages, kids in college, etc it simply was not feasible to make the jump. And now that perhaps it is feasible they have less than 10 years left and don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for the twilight of their career.
There are those who have other issues, but I have ran across far more who fit the mold above than those who have personality conflict and training/qualification issues.
The airlines weren’t doing too great in the year or two leading up to September 11th, 2001. That event in many ways set in motion a downward spiral for the legacies. Then age 65 happened. And then the financial crisis / housing crisis of 2007/2008. Essentially what the industry was left with was a, “lost decade”.
Pilots were essentially “stuck” where they were at. So this begs the question... Do you put your entire life on hold to wait until you make more money? Or do you go ahead and marry your wife and have kids? Buy that house you and your family wants? No career is worth putting your life on hold.
So the natural byproduct is that many pilots who often suffered from nothing other than bad timing went on about their lives. And it wasn’t until a few years ago really that entry-level wages at the legacies improved. So for most pilots with mortgages, kids in college, etc it simply was not feasible to make the jump. And now that perhaps it is feasible they have less than 10 years left and don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for the twilight of their career.
There are those who have other issues, but I have ran across far more who fit the mold above than those who have personality conflict and training/qualification issues.
03-27-2019 | 09:00 AM
#29
Layover Master
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,376
Likes: 9
From: Seated
03-27-2019 | 09:01 AM
#30
Layover Master
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,376
Likes: 9
From: Seated
I think a lot of the posters on this thread miss the mark completely...
The airlines weren’t doing too great in the year or two leading up to September 11th, 2001. That event in many ways set in motion a downward spiral for the legacies. Then age 65 happened. And then the financial crisis / housing crisis of 2007/2008. Essentially what the industry was left with was a, “lost decade”.
Pilots were essentially “stuck” where they were at. So this begs the question... Do you put your entire life on hold to wait until you make more money? Or do you go ahead and marry your wife and have kids? Buy that house you and your family wants? No career is worth putting your life on hold.
So the natural byproduct is that many pilots who often suffered from nothing other than bad timing went on about their lives. And it wasn’t until a few years ago really that entry-level wages at the legacies improved. So for most pilots with mortgages, kids in college, etc it simply was not feasible to make the jump. And now that perhaps it is feasible they have less than 10 years left and don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for the twilight of their career.
There are those who have other issues, but I have ran across far more who fit the mold above than those who have personality conflict and training/qualification issues.
The airlines weren’t doing too great in the year or two leading up to September 11th, 2001. That event in many ways set in motion a downward spiral for the legacies. Then age 65 happened. And then the financial crisis / housing crisis of 2007/2008. Essentially what the industry was left with was a, “lost decade”.
Pilots were essentially “stuck” where they were at. So this begs the question... Do you put your entire life on hold to wait until you make more money? Or do you go ahead and marry your wife and have kids? Buy that house you and your family wants? No career is worth putting your life on hold.
So the natural byproduct is that many pilots who often suffered from nothing other than bad timing went on about their lives. And it wasn’t until a few years ago really that entry-level wages at the legacies improved. So for most pilots with mortgages, kids in college, etc it simply was not feasible to make the jump. And now that perhaps it is feasible they have less than 10 years left and don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for the twilight of their career.
There are those who have other issues, but I have ran across far more who fit the mold above than those who have personality conflict and training/qualification issues.
Lost decade was real, and it completely sucked. Many 26 year olds today think we're making this garbage up....
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