Regional lifers. Why are they stuck?
03-27-2019 | 09:07 AM
#31
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03-27-2019 | 09:10 AM
#32
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Took 5.5 years to upgrade at a regional. That wasn't too bad. Now I fly with 24 year olds complaining how it's BS they haven't been pulled for CA yet. Unreal.
03-27-2019 | 09:41 AM
#33
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Took 5.5 years to upgrade at a regional. That wasn't too bad. Now I fly with 24 year olds complaining how it's BS they haven't been pulled for CA yet. Unreal.
Now get these damn kids off my lawn!!!!
03-27-2019 | 09:43 AM
#34
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I’m the poster child. Numerous ratings. 135 CP. Military IP and combat time (but RW). I even went out on my own dime and got additional ones- glider and SES- just to prove I was trainable. I saw numerous FOs hired with zero TPIC. Good guys and girls all, but I couldn’t even get the interview. Even the resume comapanies said the same- too much experience. That’s why I finall went with K4 when they threw me a line.
03-27-2019 | 10:08 AM
#35
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I don't buy into the "untrainable" theory, but maybe I'm wrong.
03-27-2019 | 10:08 AM
#36
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
So you think it's more of a personal choice and not so much to do with their personality for many of them?
Obviously, you're going to have the ones with sketchy records or employment history, training failures.
So it's a mixture of both choice, and blemished records?
The bolded paragraph is just shocking. Don't they realize that they could make so much more money with just a few years of sacrifice if they moved to an LCC or major? Can they not do the math?
Obviously, you're going to have the ones with sketchy records or employment history, training failures.
So it's a mixture of both choice, and blemished records?
The bolded paragraph is just shocking. Don't they realize that they could make so much more money with just a few years of sacrifice if they moved to an LCC or major? Can they not do the math?
Some have blemishes which probably cannot be overcome, or at least not for a top-tier job.
The "lost generation" often has established family and lives in a location which is not conducive to commuting.
A 10+ year regional CA is looking at a long pay cut to go to an LCC/ULCC.
Many are divorced with kids, and cannot move, or rock the boat with the custody sharing schedule.
Some don't want to be FO's again (stupid IMO... as a major FO I usually fly with great, experienced CA's. If not I can gently exercise my leadership skills to achieve the desired outcome).
It's a legit decision to stay, as long as you understand the stability risks of the regionals and have a plan B. If your plan B is starting over at age 50 as an FO at another regionals, then you should just go to an LCC now. Regionals may be in for "Rough Air" over the next decade.
I have also seen folks who are not putting in the effort... keep in mind that's a daunting prospect for a family man (or worse, Mom). Major job hunting is a full time job. If you do grab the ring, your reward is a paycut, many months of training, and then likely some time commuting to reserve at a junior base. The system is designed to "discourage" older family men, who I suspect are not considered the ideal candidate by the majors.
03-27-2019 | 10:10 AM
#37
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I think a lot of the posters on this thread miss the mark completely...
The airlines weren’t doing too great in the year or two leading up to September 11th, 2001. That event in many ways set in motion a downward spiral for the legacies. Then age 65 happened. And then the financial crisis / housing crisis of 2007/2008. Essentially what the industry was left with was a, “lost decade”.
Pilots were essentially “stuck” where they were at. So this begs the question... Do you put your entire life on hold to wait until you make more money? Or do you go ahead and marry your wife and have kids? Buy that house you and your family wants? No career is worth putting your life on hold.
So the natural byproduct is that many pilots who often suffered from nothing other than bad timing went on about their lives. And it wasn’t until a few years ago really that entry-level wages at the legacies improved. So for most pilots with mortgages, kids in college, etc it simply was not feasible to make the jump. And now that perhaps it is feasible they have less than 10 years left and don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for the twilight of their career.
There are those who have other issues, but I have ran across far more who fit the mold above than those who have personality conflict and training/qualification issues.
The airlines weren’t doing too great in the year or two leading up to September 11th, 2001. That event in many ways set in motion a downward spiral for the legacies. Then age 65 happened. And then the financial crisis / housing crisis of 2007/2008. Essentially what the industry was left with was a, “lost decade”.
Pilots were essentially “stuck” where they were at. So this begs the question... Do you put your entire life on hold to wait until you make more money? Or do you go ahead and marry your wife and have kids? Buy that house you and your family wants? No career is worth putting your life on hold.
So the natural byproduct is that many pilots who often suffered from nothing other than bad timing went on about their lives. And it wasn’t until a few years ago really that entry-level wages at the legacies improved. So for most pilots with mortgages, kids in college, etc it simply was not feasible to make the jump. And now that perhaps it is feasible they have less than 10 years left and don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for the twilight of their career.
There are those who have other issues, but I have ran across far more who fit the mold above than those who have personality conflict and training/qualification issues.
03-27-2019 | 10:11 AM
#38
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Lots of factors but among them is the ridiculous first year wages at some of the ULCCs. There was a long discussion on this subject on a Frontier thread back when their negotiations were going on. The pilot group didn't wish to "waste" any "negotiating capital" on bringing newbie's on board. So what did the first year FO wages end up?
$58 an hour for Frontier
$57 for Spirit
$78 for JetBlue
$58 an hour for Frontier
$57 for Spirit
$78 for JetBlue
03-27-2019 | 10:12 AM
#39
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03-27-2019 | 10:13 AM
#40
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From regional new hire initial to major airline ground school has taken me 15.5 years. I've had MANY FO's of mine way less qualified hired by legacies with half the time. And I've done everything possible to avoid being that stagnant, lazy guy.
Took 5.5 years to upgrade at a regional. That wasn't too bad. Now I fly with 24 year olds complaining how it's BS they haven't been pulled for CA yet. Unreal.
Took 5.5 years to upgrade at a regional. That wasn't too bad. Now I fly with 24 year olds complaining how it's BS they haven't been pulled for CA yet. Unreal.
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