Uncompetitive doesn’t mean unhireable. We had a fellow that used to put together some pretty nifty graphs of the hiring at the majors. The total time bell curve showed a sweet spot of around 6700 hours for most new hires with a shallow decline up to around 10,000 hours then a pretty sharp decline. The same graph for the LCCs had a sweet spot of around 3800 hours TT.

Just stay on the ball, keep your apps updated weekly and hit the job fair circuit. As soon as you start to stagnate, your odds of escape start to decrease.

The Minneapolis thing is taken out of context. What I meant by it is I didn’t want to commute farther than Minneapolis but wouldn’t rule out the west coast. But whatever. Either way I was not trying to be condescending nor was I trying to give life advice. Everyone has their reasoning behind their logic. What I am saying was that this is, from my experience and what I do, what is looked for and makes people stand out. I guess I didn’t necessarily come off as well as I intended too. What I was trying to state was that it is a well rounded employee that they’re looking for not just quantity of total time/PIC. And by the same token if you do a ton of volunteering but also lack in areas such as total time/PIC or have a low college GPA then you are equally not as marketable.

I don’t argue with people who stay at a regional for their career. The regionals aren’t a terrible career in today’s world. 10 years ago I wouldn’t ever imagine wanting to spend my life at any of these places but I understand that people didn’t have a choice. The point I was trying to get at was a good amount of posts were aimed at people who are young and don’t understand what those “before us” went through and don’t deserve to be in the positions they are. Like I said I work for a regional. I know people younger than me with less time and experience picked up by a major airline. I don’t look down on them but rather I say “what can I do that they did to help me get hired too.”

You’re right maybe I am young and don’t understand anything about the world. But I also know that going through life miserable about where you are and everything else that is going on around you is no way at all to live.

(And for the guy concerned about paragraphs there ya go. Didn’t realize it was all that important as I’m posting from my phone...)

Correlation is not necessarily causation. After 5-7K many of the most motivated are gone so the folks left, on average, are not trying as hard, or at all. After 10K, they are not trying at all or have some background showstopper.

At UAL, there are only 165 pilots under 33 years old. Our average new hire is just under 40. The wave is just arriving. Don’t give up.

P.S. With the huge variety in fleet/ missions, you can make $ and have great QOL with not too much global seniority. Just will depend on your BES (base, equipment, seat).

THIS^^^^

As you repeatedly filter the cohort for hirability the ones left behind are disproportionately the ones that were ALWAYS least likely to be hired due to a VARIETY of factors including geographical preferences, no four year degree, discomfort with actively campaigning to get to the next level, prior training failures, prior DUIs or other legal problems, divorce/child custody issues, unwillingness or inability to take the monetary or seniority/scheduling hit to restart at year one, being super cautious and knowing that a 12 year regional captain is a lot more furlough-proof than a first or second year major FO, or maybe just because of a profound hatred of being on reserve.

Age and flying hours become highly correlated with people hanging around a regional for any or all of these reasons - and probably others I haven’t thought of - but in no real way are those two factors (age and flying hours) the CAUSE of those people being stuck there.

So they were hiring flight instructors instead of experienced captains. That's a bold, and stupid strategy.

I didn’t take that away from what he was saying at all. I think he was trying to be helpful and give solid insight into what he’s seen at his level. I think it’s pretty nasty to discard someone’s comment based on their age. I’m in my late 30s and know very mature, intelligent people who are in their early 20s, as well as total losers who are older than me.
I also believe what he was saying is valid. In my former career, I’ve hired hundreds of people, many of whom were equally qualified for the job. A positive attitude, and ability to work in a team environment are super important. You can’t “teach” a good attitude. Volunteer work is great, as well as hobbies, additional certifications, etc. As a hiring manager, you want people who will enhance your organization. Often I looked at people for their growth potential. If I were in charge of hiring FOs, I would look for qualities that would make a good captain. They say “dress for the job you want, not the job you have”. You have to sell yourself as someone who will be an asset to the company, not just a cog in the machine (even if that’s all you end up being).

I honestly don’t see what the big deal is, if someone is happy to stay at a regional then that is okay. Just 7 years ago it was taking the better part of a decade for people to even upgrade at a regional. They let life happen in the meantime, and not everyone wants to take a financial hit even for a year or two to go to a major. Chances are those folks now have kids in high school, saving for college or maybe a mortgage that doesn’t allow a pay cut from 120k down to 50-80k.

We have to remember that in almost every other industry, a top out pay of 130-140k is pretty damn good money, we as airline pilots .0002% of the population seem to lose sight of that. I agree if one can financially absorb the initial blow of moving on, it will mean they will have a much better financial long term career. But for some the rat race is over, the lost decade made some comfortable and that is okay. I fly with many guys that have a degree, have volunteering and other accolades and no DUI’s. They just don’t want to commute to SFO for reserve in their late 40’s early 50’s missing Timmy’s baseball games. There is more to life than money, those that already have a good financial life, drive to work and see their families 15-18 days a month see that as well.

Very true. Nice post.

Pretty much. But as you say, almost every other industry involves an immediate PAY RAISE when moving on to bigger and better.

Not till recently is there even a hint of “parity”, or a minimal pay loss when moving on.

Remeber that brief little hiring stint in 2007-2008?

FedEx, DAL, and SW has the highest new hire pay, around 40-45/hr

NW, USair, and CAL, and UAL were still sucking hind titty below $40/hr.

Granted, those hired are sitting pretty now. Except for the USAir, L-CAL, and 2 time L-UAL furloughs that had to endure that sting in the recession.