I currently live in the Washington metro part of Maryland, about 50 miles from DCA. The median home around my neighborhood (a very nice, very safe neighborhood that is about 12 years old) goes for $450k...and is 4 bed, 2.5 bath, 3200 square feet two story traditional on a .18 acre lot.

If that is your vision of the American Dream, so be it....but don't crap on me because its not mine. The rent for our 1 bedroom, 1 bath apartment is about $150/mo more than the payment I would have had if I had bought a 4 year old 3bd/2ba 1400 sq ft ranch in Indianapolis last spring. Additionally, I have no desire whatsoever to live in a location where the annual property tax on a median home would be greater than the yearly mortgage payment on a median home in a cheaper location. If that cheaper location is in "flyover country", so be it.

Everybody wants to make a ton of money, I am no exception...but if I ever need to make $100k just to meet my basic needs then I know I will have failed as a provider for my family.

Devils Advocate:

What if you had 3 children? One bedroom might not be enough, so expect housing costs to increase. With 3 kids, you could see all 3 in college in the same brief expensive time period. At age 60 (or 65) you are done...how is your retirement plan? Anyway, some things to consider.

Not picking on you, just raising some points.

You could live like a king in DSM on 100K. Don't blame the person who is content with that for being.....content with that.

Teachers rawk. They don't get into it for the money, they get into it cause they think they will love it, make an impact, like working with kids. Pilots shouldn't get into this biz for the money, either. I mean, if you don't love aviation, you don't have any business being a pilot in the first place.

If a guy thought "airline pilots make 200K" cause he picked up a Flying magazine once that said so and decided to go for it, then went to Gulfstream, went to PCL, and is now upset that he's not making 200K after four years, should he be upset? I'd say no because he got into the biz for the wrong reasons and didn't do his research.

One other thing. You can't get banned here for calling someone a "dummy".

Great points! I'm going to delve into my background just a little bit to give some perspective on my position.

I am nearly 24 years old. My dad is a construction equipment mechanic, my mother has 25 years in at her current company and is a mid-level plant manager. They never cracked 100k in gross earnings until my senior year of high school. Despite this, my folks have been able to support my brother and I, buy three homes, a 105 acre farm, and we've all driven like-new vehicles for the last decade. The only major debt they have is the farm and that will be paid off in 2008, 8 years into a 20 year note. I didn't live extravagantly growing up, but I never wanted for anything.

My parents paid half of my college education; Uncle Sam paid a portion and the rest is on me. My wife received no financial help whatsoever from her parents because of their divorce. Obviously I want to be able to provide more for my children's education because it is so important, but I also want them to know the value, cost and price of work and earning something. My father wrote a $13,500 tuition check for my very first semester at Purdue at the kitchen table and handed it to me so that his first-born son could hand-deliver it to the Bursar's Office. I'll never forget the look in his eye and the scars on his hands as I took that check...and I'd never want to!

My folks also do not have a traditional retirement plan. They have two rental homes for income, my mother has moderate 401k, and the rest of their net worth outside of property is in liquid assets like savings, CDs, etc. Knowing this I started a Roth IRA when I was 19 years old and contribute a sizable amount of my check to my company's very good 401k, which has a defined contribution as well as a pretty decent match. I started a Roth for my wife last fall because her current job does not offer a retirement savings vehicle; with nearly four decades until retirement I do not worry if we'll have enough.

What's the point to this autobiography? Live well but well within your means. Plan early for the future. Make a budget and stick to it, staying out of unsecured debt as if your life depended on it. Buy used cars instead of new. Save every possible penny you can. And most importantly, don't go bitching on the intarwebs if you're not meeting your expectations for compensation...nobody cares.

BoilerUP,
Great post! How's it going these days? I hope you make it over here sometime, you will love it. :)

You've already gone a lot further than that in your PM.. Thanks there for the calm down... What was your soft spot? the part about my wife staying at home? Did I push the wrong buttons on that for ya? Or was it the fact that I was defending our profession and how some think it's well paid and trying to explain to this guy that his perspective is wrong.

Glad you're company pays well, but most of the rest have a long way to go.. And don't think you're immune from pay cuts if everyone else starts to think $50K is a good living. I'm personally set for other reasons, but that's not the same for a lot of others. I know too many people that work too hard for the crap they earn..

Your turn, and please try to be constructive to the debate.

you and Hotmama have some serious "Chip on shoulder" issues.. So because I think it's better for my wife to stay at home with our kids I'm somehow bad? Well I've got news.. SO DOES SHE. I didn't put a gun to her head and demand it... on the contrary she did when we got married. More over, she was a teacher for 5 years before we married and show the difference between kids with a mom at home and kids without.

If you chose to work while your kids are in day care, or what ever you do, that's your choice, but it's not for everyone. I know that the majority of people I know feel the same way.. so take your insults and feminist BS to someone else please.

Amazing..

Boilerup.. glad your teacher was a great guy, glad he live large on $50k.. your 1 BR apts for the rent of a 3 br home is enough evidence to make my point, so I'll not belabor it.

BoilerUP,

Sounds like you have done some quality planning based on thoughtful consideration of our industry.

My compliments!

who's making the generalizations now? Guess what I originally said wasn't so far off the mark then, was it?

I'm glad the majority of people you know feel the same way. The majority of people I know think it's fine if mom works.

I never said staying at home with the kids is bad. It's great if you want to do it and it is a choice. I made that comment because you have said that women should not work if they have kids. You pretty much showed you are a sexist in other posts.

Whatever creams your twinkie cave man.

Just because I don't subscribe to your liberal social views, doesn't make me a sexist.. I (and my wife) just have a different (and I believe better for us) set of values. Call me what ever names you like, it only shows that you are carrying around some kind of internal guilt when you act out that way as far as I'm concerned.

Wow, sugar tits sends you love notes via PM as well? I thought I was the only one, darn.

Ok, so what you are saying is that you don't think all women belong in the kitchen? Did you not ever tell me that you don't think women belong in the cockpit? C'mon, don't lie. You have made this comment to me.

Yes, I have internal guilt, whatever. Of course your wife doesn't have a problem staying at home. That's how a lot of women are. If you have a job and kids, you double your work. If you stay at home and have kids, you have half the work AND someone else is providing for you. Why anyone would want someone to take care of them is beyond me, but that's how (unfortunately) a lot of women are.

You are right though, to each his own. At least I know that if I get divorced I don't have to drag him to court for alimony because I can't take care of myself.

What I said was that too many are in there that don't belong just because of their gender .. heck I've seen women on the 11 that don't even have the strength to do a proper Flight Controls check to get the greens continue to get passes.. but then God forbid we loose two Hydraulic systems (as has happened before) and you need two strong pilots to muscle the bird onto a loc, what then? So if their truly qualified, I have no problem, and more over if their priority is career and not kids... more power to them, but when you have kids, I think that at least in the formative years a mom at home is a good thing. Call me a caveman, threaten to bar me from UPS, or what ever.. I'm not changing my view.


My wife and I don't have "His" and "Hers" bank accounts, and if I were to turn into a loser and leave her, she'd get more than 1/2 what I have..

That's my take on it, but Hotmama decided to call me a few choice words for having my view.. I've never come one-line here and judged her for her choice... heck for all I know she's got no kids, or their all grown up!

That's being cinical.. I don't plan to leave my wife, and neither she I.. and like I said above... if I did, she'd get more than 1/2 of the estate, and it would be well deserved..

Remember, this thread is about income and supporting one's family.. In the end, I was trying to make the point that in most places in this country TODAY (now when we grew up)... $100K isn't enough to do what a typical middle class family needs. I know in our case $100K is about what we spend before savings just to live in a safe neighborhood, furnish our home, put two kids thru school, and drive two safe cars... with money left over for food, and an occasional small vacation.


Ok.. flame away..

OMG! Yeah, I'm going to bar you from UPS. I'm crazy but not that immature. GMAFB!

Noone, male or female should have a job JUST because of their gender so at least we agree on something.

Duck,
The title to the thread is in reference to everyone's "now for a happy post" I'm not spreading "funk" I am just raising something that was interesting ot me and thought my fellow pilots would like to know. Sorry I didnt add a little smiley face so you could understand sarcasm.

We wanna get into this "who are you" BS, fine. WHO ARE YOU? A CFI right? I don't think there is a thread for you just yet.

I didn't see why everyone thought you were some snot nosed punk, until now.

Regards,
Bravo

Considering he only has a high school DP and isnt the brightest. HA that was mean.

oops...*crawls back into hole and apoligizes*

I never said anything about your being a real idiot. Reread this thread and come back to me.


Point is, he is single, has a home, a paid off car, and enjoys his salary. All that my point was, was that for someone to do something of his caliber, VS. a pilot who is responsible for hundreds of lives daily, it kinda baffles me. That is all. Now go back to your flaming! :D:rolleyes:

I never said anything about your being a real idiot. Reread this thread and come back to me.


Point is, he is single, has a home, a paid off car, and enjoys his salary. All that my point was, was that for someone to do something of his caliber, VS. a pilot who is responsible for hundreds of lives daily, it kinda baffles me. That is all. Now go back to your flaming! :D:rolleyes:


*** EDIT, forgive me for even responding to you. I just took the time to read some of your post.:rolleyes:

Phoenix is not a cheap place to live by the way....kid

Funny, that's whay hotmamapilot thinks she can do with sending offensive PM's.

Guys
 

Two guys met in a bar one night. The first complains to the other that his pay was just cut to 100K and he doesnt know how he will be able to make his Porsche payments anymore.

When asked the second guy states that he "earns 250K per year and gets paid more every year". The airline pilot asks "wow, what do you do for a living"? "I am a plumber" the second guy continues, "I use to be an airline pilot".

SkyHigh

Sky, you never cease to make me laugh, regardless of your posts content.

I am Glad
 

Most of my posts are written with a bit of dry humor. :)

SkyHigh

Pay
 

Pilots should fly because they love to fly only. Aviation is like a monastery. Pilots do best if they are not married and live a humble existence. Their apartments should be small and decorated with aviation pictures and themes. On days off they should hang around at flight schools to spread the gospel of aviation.

Excessive "school teacher" pay can only serve to taint the pure intentions and expectations of pilots. Poverty is the only way to keep ones mind clean and focused. Homes, families and outside hobbies can only serve to distract and raise the income needs of the pilot leading to a life of strained dissatisfaction.

Lets all get back on the page. Pilots are blessed by a life free of stresses that come with the trappings of mortal men. Friends, families, home and financial security are for the impure.

Aviation today, aviation only.

Skyhigh

Ok, I'll bite..

Is anywhere in California where 30,000,000 Americans live cheap?

How about Nevada?

Or Oregon, Washington, Georgia, New Jersey, New York, Pencilvenia, Ohio, New Hampshire, Colorado, Wyoming.. etc? Find me a real estate link from any place for that matter with a population more than 1,000,000 in the US where I can get a 3 br, 2300-2500sf home, two car garage in a SAFE neighborhood with good schools for less than $450,000??

Not everyone is cut out to live in a trailer park or in a small town 50 miles from anything... Or do you think we pilots are not worthy to live among the rest of the "Professional" world?

Kid..

I'll take that challenge. Wow - first try. 15 minutes from downtown Cincinnati. They have two major league sports teams, a symphony, an aquarium, and some folks have ce-ment ponds.

Welcome to reality. You should try living here.

http://www.sibcycline.com/viewlistin...=SearchResults

But what if I'm a trailer park kidda guy kiddo? haha just playin

Threads like this are the reason that the general public thinks we're all overpaid. "Wah, my pay got cut and now I'll have to send my kids to public school and sell our second vacation home."
Gasp, the horror!

$149,000 for a home in a town where the median price of a home is $96K and the average person is making $31,000/yr?

Your idea of a good life is a 14x11 master bedroom, in a zipcode with schools in the bottom 10% of the country and where the number of people with college degrees is about 12%?? You have GOT to be kidding me.. please, tell me you're joking.. Cause if not, we have to stop debating, there is no point of reference.

http://local.reply.com/real-estate/KY/covington.html

So I guess the next thing you're going to say now is that pilots are blue color labor that fits in someplace between bus driver and day laborer.

This from a guy who's not flown anything bigger than a small twin? Boy, I guess you are a seasoned pilot with several type ratings and a few furloughs under your belt so you must be an expert on the subject of pilot pay and life at the airlines.

Ok, I'm outta here..

"Small twin"? Geeze, you sound like my passengers. :rolleyes:

Ah, a K-Mart Man, or Target perhaps?;)

some observations
 

I just wasted 30 min of my life that I will never get back by reading this entire thread.:) some observations,

the median household income for the entire USA in 2005 (the latest census data available) was $46,326. So yes, $50,000 is a lot of money to more than half the country.

A very nice home in San Antonio in a great neighborhood with good schools can be had for well under $450k
http://sanantoniohomesforsale.yourkw...rget=idx_url_1

At the low end, pilots are grossly underpaid. At the high end, not so much. But these pay rates are market driven as all pay should be.

If you can't live like you want to in NJ, CA, MD, or where ever, move. High cost of living does not equate to high quality of living.

CE sounds like a snob

Just my humble opinion

He's probably is his early 20's and living at home, or in a 1br sh#tbox. He's in for a rude awakening when he gets married, has children, and has to provide a good QOL for them. These hobbyists are the reason the profession is going down the tubes. They will work for scraps so that they can call themselves airline pilots. God forbid a pilot flying a 747 across the pond wants to make enough money to live in a nice city and send his children to a private school.

Younger generation
 

The apple farmers saw their jobs go away to immigrants from the south. Pilots watch helplessly as younger people take over to do the same job for less.

How can they understand until it is their turn to be undercut? It is not anyone's fault. The job is just too easy now. High school kids will be the next wave.

Skyhigh

Two...

And as a native Arizonan and close follower of real estate, just because you can't buy a house here doesn't mean that you don't make enough, it just means that the idiots have bid the prices of the houses too high. Look at renting a house until the craze blows over. Rents are at all time lows and landlords are dieing for good tenants.

But if you need to buy a house I can assure you that there's plenty of 3br 2000sq foot houses available for $300k or even less.

50K is not a lot of money nor is 100k today really.
 

That cheap 300k house is about a $1500-2000 a month payment. Good luck on a regional FO's pay or a RJ Captain's pay for that matter. 100K where I live means that your wife has to work too to afford that 300K house. That isn't to far off the median house price either.