Skyhigh,

It must be really lonely on that pedestal.

Who said I'm not aiming higher? What career isn't without it's risks? Ask WorldCom employees how they're doing right now. Ask the folks at National Rent-a-car how they're doing after Enterprise finishes their buyout. Ask skilled laborers how they're doing right now, especially the ones that worked for homebuilders. Ill-informed choices are out there no matter what career field you persue. You failed, get over it.

For somebody that likes to gloat about how great things are and how much he can afford financially you seem to spend an awful lot of time on your computer, at home, doing nothing but waxing idiotic about how you screwed up and went to a failed carrier. Of course the result is that we'll all meet the same end.

Career
 

In other words job = money; career = satisfaction as in " it was satisfying to play the guitar for coins on the street corner". :rolleyes:

You are wrong. Try again.

SkyHigh

Diffrence
 

One of the big differences is that most people are accumulating value as they progress though the turmoils of a career. Pilots are worth nothing outside of aviation and the seniority system.

SkyHigh

Life isn't that simple.
 

Throw on the 401K and taxes, plus all the other stuff you get taken out for medical/dental, HSA, Insurance, etc. and that $8333.33 becomes a lot less. That pretty much means that more than one check alone is going to the house payment, the rest is going towards heating, electricity, TV, phone & internet, etc. Now how do you save for your kids education, and a newer car someday, vacation once in a great while, not to mention home improvement costs because your mean average home needs a new roof soon.

Where I live a 300K house is 5K a year in property taxes ($400/mo.)

When you really beak it down, 100K is not a whole lot of money in a place like where I live. Personally I want to do more than just get by, that is why I became a pilot back when I did. I like to fly, but I like money more! I'm lucky to not have to worry about one or the other, but neither should other pilots. Like most people; I work to live, not the other way around. If FedEx didn't pay well I would not have applied; UPS did not get an application from me because of their 1st year pay.

My blood boils every time I read some a$$ posting $hit like this. GA pilots fly because they love it. Airline pilots, on the other hand, have invested time and money, sacrificed family and friends, quality of life, retirement saving opportunity, and a host of other things for one reason - airline pilot pay (or what it used to be). If money is so unimportant, why are so many guys at the majors beginning alternate careers?

It was brought up more than once but these bafoons don't get it.

That jragosta toolbox is a President of some company. That explains a lot.

Let's not be dramatic. They have a base in Phoenix and, correct me if I am wrong, but a Vegas base. If you worked at National, you were based in Vegas weren't you?

I have a lot of friends there and they do not fly 9 legs a day. Yes, they work harder, per se, but they have some good schedules flying 3 legs in a day and they make decent money.

That seals it. I was only before strongly leaning to getting out of the passenger flying business, but that thread now makes it 100% clear to me that I am doomed to low pay forever as a greyhound-bus-in-the-sky-driver. The very people whom we work so hard to get to their destinations safely through fatigue, bad weather, mechanical issues, etc etc, really have no respect for us. We are seen as spoiled, out of touch, ego maniacs. Thank you hollywood and management teams. BTW, I loved your post there Megadeth.

I chose this career because I love to fly and loathe cubicle farms. But, I want a salary commensurate with the amount of responsibility required of the position. We have to walk a fine line as pilots. It's so easy to screw up, there are hundred of gotcha's we must overcome daily. One second of complacency could mean a career ending deviation, or at least a career limiting one. One mistake could lead to dozens of deaths, and even the bankruptcy of an airline. The burden we bear is immense. We have to be in top form each and every leg we fly. A doctor screws up, one person may die. A CEO screws up, and millions of dollars may be lost. We as pilots bear both those burdens, coupled with very low career stability and a great deal of personal sacrifice (family..).

Look at how fast the cost of living is rising. Sure, there are parts of the country where $50k is good money, but that is short lived. As the cost of big city living in other parts keeps going up, people move to the 'cheap' places, and the cost goes up there. It's inevitable that soon, no matter where you live, 50k just won't cut it in the not too distant future. But then again I have lofty goals. I don't want to be working past age 60. I want to put my kids through college. I don't want to have to make my wife work to make up for what I don't make. I only have one life to live, so I'm going to shoot for the best I can with what abilities and opportunities I have. I don't want to be mediocre or average. But that's me. I think it's a shame that this 'career' is fast becoming a 'job'. In any case, I'll just keep investing every spare cent I can muster. I realized, hopefully at an early enough age, that I need to make my money work for me. In the end, I hope it pays off. In the meantime, I'll keep flying because I love to do it. I hate to say it, but management has me, and so many others, by the balls. We love to fly and therefore accept terms we otherwise would not.

PS - You controllers out there have my full support for high pay also. You shoulder a great deal of responsibility and deserve to be compensated accordingly.

Sorry, can't resist..

I'm still trying to figure out how you managed to get around the $25,000 in taxes... :rolleyes:

Swa
 

We all have dreams and needs in life. I lived in Vegas for years however the goal has always been to get to Alaska Airlines and eventually a SEA base. If I took a job with SWA I could be assured of a lifetime of doing things I did not want to.

SWA was very good to me as a commuter. They fly nice and newer planes. SWA is definitely a strong company however I have no interest in working there. I also have never applied or wanted to fly for UPS or FedEx either.

I know of one local guy who flies for them. He upgraded at 50 after nearly 10 years with the company and mostly lives on reserve in an old camper that is located in the employee parking lot at the Baltimore airport. Doesnt sound like much fun to me.

SkyHigh

Love of FLying
 

Years ago I decided to become a pilot because I loved flying but also because it offered the chance for a better life, more pay, more time off. I sacrificed and paid my dues. I worked two jobs to pay my way through college and all the ratings. For years I endured poverty, loneliness and other hardships trying to get to the next level. I never had a fancy major airline sponsor. No one was there to guide me to the next step. All my friends looked to me to break the trail. I had to earn every meager career advance on my own merits.

Over time the industry changed right out from under my feet. What is left in most cases isn't worth having anymore in my humble opinion. It especially isn't worth what I went through to get here. My expectations are high and were kept high by all the hardships I went through.

Sometimes the only way to really win the game is to stop playing. My aim is for a better life for my wife and my children. I know I can do better than what even the best flying job can offer. The remaining scraps of our wrecked industry are not worth the best days of my life.

Skyhigh

Well, that's his choice. He doesn't have to do that. GMAFB! Yeah, all SWA pilots live in campers in a parking lot. This is a dramatic example and clearly something this guy CHOSE to do. I know many guys there that have been there less than 5 years. Sure they don't have the schedule I would like (week on week off) but they can hold 3 on 4 off. A lot of people would love that type of schedule.

Swa
 

All I am saying it that it wouldn't work for me. I need at least a hope of 3 on 4 off and a SEA base. Oh yea and 9 legs is a deal breaker as well.

Skyhigh

Retail sucks. I've heard from my brother who is an assistant manager in retail that almost any retail store manager has a crappy life. They are responsible for the entire store 24/7. The manager has to be there for everything. They basically don't have a life outside of the store. When something goes wrong, they are responsible and have to explain to the district manager to save their job.

Going to college and getting a higher education is not just about making more money but also about not having to do a crappy job.

Crappy Job
 

Well where then does working as a regional pilot fit into your post college plan? 4:00AM get ups at the holiday inn to be followed by a 20 minute van ride to a 9 leg day isn't exactly fun either.

SkyHigh

According to TurboTax, people in that income bracket typically pay less than 15 percent actual tax on income. I paid 9% for the 06 tax year.

I'm not making these numbers up; this is my actual income. If my family of 6 with the homemaking wife can do it, I don't see how it is that you think I live below the poverty level.

What was your AGI last year?

Well one could easy say, 630PM van after a wild wild night in Mexico City............................ for a an easy two leg day ;)

One guy at the taco bell that doesn't wash his hands could injury/kill hundreds! Look at all the lives a train engineer pulling a load of chemicals has in his hands - or a bus driver with a bus full of kids. On the other hand, look how much a baseball player makes!!:D

Sorry man, but the world doesn't work that way. :(

You're really hung up on this 9 leg a day thing but I just had a 39 hour layover at the Hyatt.

Skyhigh
 

Skyhigh,

You always talk about Alaska Airlines and a SEA base. What are typical schedules and benefits at Alaska that make that company appealing and not others?

Alaska Airlines
 

I grew up in the shadow of Alaska Airlines in the Seattle area. I also was an Alaskan bush pilot and as such flying for Alaska Airlines is a natural dream. AS also has a Seattle base that often goes junior. AS use to mostly have trips of shorter duration and mostly kept to the western US. A lot of that stuff has changed now but most is still there.


Overall though I remember being a 24 year old Cessna 207 pilot in King Salmon and would stand on the ramp in awe as the jets would come and go and would think " man by dinner time those guys will be back in the world while I rot here eating caribou helper, powdered milk and pilot bread.

SkyHigh