Now for a anti-happy pilot post...
 

A buddy of mine, who only has a High School Diploma, and 2 years experience, just got a job paying $50,000/yr and good beneies.... Here comes the kicker.


He is a Wal-Mart Assistant Manager!!!

Something else I didn't know...

A STORE manager makes roughly $110,000/yr! And half the time thats with only a 2 year degree!

So when your sitting reserve today, making $19/hr to keep 50 people safe in a flying metal tube at 600MPH, and thinking about the loans, remember this post.

/rant. I gotta go fill out my app for door greeter.

Think about this post prior to becoming a pilot. Of you really have a passion for something, you'll do whatever you need to do to make it happen. I know this. I've put myself through flight training all while going through veterinary school. I've worked my butt off, and will graduate soon with yet a bunch of student loans...that I often wonder how I'll pay back. But, I know in the long run it's what I want to do. Life isn't always a bed of roses, especially at first. Your buddy may make 110K, but is that the job he really wants? If so, then I'm happy for him. He's found his nitch, and gets paid well for it. Personally, I would hate that job. You have to have a passion for what you do. Yes, new pilots make crap for pay. So do new doctors. Some get lucky and get a lucky break...but the average starting pay is about the same for interns (20K) And yes, I agree with every single person who says that's unliveable pay...especially when your looking at even more college. Yet, somehow it's still what I want to do. I enjoy the 120 hour week, non stop learning, and anxiety of not knowing how to treat a patient - especially in veterinary medicine - when the patient cannot speak. Emergency medicine is great. It keeps you on your toes. I feel the same way when it comes to flying. Nothing excites me more than to sit down to a good book, and apply what I learn in that aeronautical book to real world flying.

And yes, I'm still making the switch to flying. I'll always have medicine as a back up. Personally, I wouldn't mind switching to human medicine and trying to get with NASA. Baby steps first though.

Point is...if you have a positive attitude...and realize why you started a career in the first place...it may make those beginning years with low pay, and crappy QOL more tolerable. Oneday you will make a decent pay check, and things will fall into place. Your hard work will be worth it.

If we start sending dogs to space again, you'll be golden!!!

If all you are ever thinking about is money, you're going to drive yourself crazy your whole career. Someone is ALWAYS making more than you, I don't care who you are.

And, on top of all that, the wealthiest people are not always the happiest.

If flying is what you want to do, then keep plugging away. If not, then go work at Wal-Mart. I'd wager the quality of your co-workers with whom you spend all day with will suffer greatly, though. The type of person that wants to fly airplanes will not do well in a Wal-Mart, and the type of person that wants to work at Wal-Mart would not do well flying airplanes.

I'm not advocating that everyone should be content with $19/hour, but you've got to remember that this is a STARTING pay, and a market driven one, at that. If nobody took the job, the pay would go up - simple as that.

HAHA that was awful!

I'm not technically complaining, sorry if it took that spin. I was merely giving facts versus what pilots make, when clearly you are in charge of peoples lives. He will gladly admit if someone comes to rob the store, he is the first one out the door.

AGAIN, not complaining, just stating facts. Ease it up a little.

Haha, that was eased. I backspaced a lot of what I originally wrote because it sounded too harsh.;)

ouch.

so crazy jenn how do you pay off med school loans on regional FO pay?

And alot of things need a little harsh, especially now days. But Im not a low timer, I know the ropes, and enjoy my life. I was just sharing facts with my fellow pilots at this god awful hour of the AM. It is just that the industry has taken such a turn. HOPEFULLY we are turning back to the light...

This is stupid and doesn't belong here.

we're not. but there is a light at the end of the tunnel... if you want to fly in china and india

I disagree. I was making a comparison to a regional pilot. If you dont like it, go back to hangar talk.

dude... wait until you've been flying as a professional pilot for a few years and see if you feel the same way. Fact is, we fly for a living, not just because it's fun.. MOST people I know working outside of aviation love their jobs, and most of them are making more than the average pilot.. There was a time not too long ago when pilot was listed as one of the top 10 incomes in the professional world.. today it's hardly top 100.

if you won't to work at wal mart go do it. I had a friend in high school whose dad was a manager at wal mart. He finally went back to school so he could do something else because he hated it so much. You won't catch me complaining because some wal mart manager is making more money than me. If you don't like your job find something else to do, it's not that complicated. Complaining about it on a forums isn't going to do anything to raise pay.

I don't "won't" to work for Walmart... but some people ACTUALLY do. Heck, I don't even shop in that white trash infested hole.. but the FACT remains it pays better to make a career there than it does at the average airline today, and that's not a good thing.

Sacrifices
 

A successful life lies in setting priorities:

Hopefully everyone here knows that the life of a pilot is impoverished, hopeless and self destructive.

We are lucky to live in a country that offers so many options in life. If someone fully realises the obstacles and hardships of an aviation career but moves ahead anyway they will be the ones to suffer. (so long as they do not have a spouse or children)

Pilot career first and foremost. Friends, family, home and financial security second.

A Walmart career offers the latter as the first priority. Clock punchers and 9 to 5 types get a lot in return for their sacrifices.

SkyHigh

To all those complaining about low regional pay, I really doubt that someone put a gun to your head and made you say, "Oh please Mr. regional hiring guy sir, hire me and let me make low, sh$tty wages and have no quality of life"!

uh, am... I think.. I mean I.. Oh heck! I'm at a loss for words (rare).. :rolleyes:

Getting paid nothing the first and second was no illusion. Everyone knows that the pay sucks for a while before they started. Get your time and move on and go corporate or to a major or cargo or something. Who plan's on staying at a regional for good anyway?

Im just going to stop posting here. Its just a steady decline in maturity around here.

No one
 

No one ever plans on making a regional as a career. The reality is that most will end up getting stuck there anyway.

SkyHigh

Hahaha, welcome to airlinepilotforums.com my friend ;)

hehe... we're gonna relish this moment, CE750! :p

Anyway, yeah- the pay can suck at first. I was making over $80k a year working in flight ops at a Japanese carrier while instructing- total income of over $110k a year.... now I've come to the dark side, and make $23/hr.

Yeah, it sucks- but the office sure has a nice view!! :D

-why else do we work>?
-it's more about "how in the hell am i gonna pay the bills?"
-you're ideals don't fair well in the real world
ps, you're in for a rude awakening

Oh, come on man, grow a set. You couldn't possibly have thought that what you originally posted was going to provoke thoughtful, grown up conversation, could you?

Comparing starting regional pilot pay to Wal-Mart employee pay? That comparison is not even on the same planet.

Truthfully, I didn't see anything immature about the responses (not nearly as much as I expected), not sure what you're talking about there, either.

I'm doing fine, thanks. I don't fly for the airlines.;) Been doing this awhile, and am quite awake, but I started at the bottom just like everybody else.

You don't have to complain, but you sure as h&ll better not be happy with the situation, and you had better be thinking about ways to improve things and communicating with your fellow pilots. A lot of what goes on on this and other boards is actually communicating, although the tone often sounds like bitching.

$100K is bare-minimum pay to support a family these days...you might also get a couple dirt bikes, an RV, or a ski boat out of the deal but you're not going to have a vacation home in the mountains or a big house in a nice neighborhood. Unless you plan really well, you will still be looking at college loans for the kids too.

The only place where a regional pilot can actually get ahead on $100K is in one of those nice rural towns that happens to have a nearby pilot domicile. $100K can get you a ranch house and a few acres in place like that, where prices are lower due to the lack of higher-paying jobs.

so why are there so many regional lifers who love the idea of topping out at 100K?

Ask anybody hired at a regional in late spring or early summer 2001 what their career plans were...now ask them where life happens to find them. Only then you might find better insight to your question...

Don't get me wrong...I make near the highest 50 seat RJ FO pay in the industry and know I am underpaid...but reading statements like these two paragraphs above really makes me wonder just what kind of lifestyle are you living or seeking?:eek:

Call me crazy, but I don't aspire to have a "vacation home in the mountains" or a "big house in a nice neighborhood". A 1600 sq ft, 3bd/2ba ranch on a quarter acre is what I grew up in and I would be totally satisfied raising my family in one. Guess my priorities are just different...

I wonder how many of these "you should do it because you love it and not for the money" types have families to support. I bet the percentage isn't very high. Doing something I love comes second to providing a good QOL for my family (after I get out of the military, which I obviously didn't join for money or QOL).

Flying is not bad because of low pay. I think intern doctors make next to nothing just like we do when we start. (even though they make up for it later better than we do). In flying you have to make sure you work for an employeer that isn't out to kill their employees over a few dollars.

QOL, being able to sleep and eat well enough to stay healthy, and have enough time at home to make life worth living.

Fortunately I haven't started paying off all of them yet...me and my husband have sat down and talked about all this stuff...and we realize that means making sacrifices. When graduation day does come though, it's going to be a rough start...no matter what career path ends up being primary. Even worse...I'm fighting just to keep my medical right now. 4 weeks ago I was fine, thinking my aviation future was all bright and dandy...and now, hell I'm just happy to be alive. I wont go into the situation, and that really has nothing to do with the topic at hand...

I think FN hit it well though...about defining QOL. Future also nailed it. Family comes first, and it should. If you can't keep your budget on a positive side, then reconsider your options. There are always ways to do things, and finding a career that suits you and your lifestyle is important...even though it may not be that dream job from when you were 10. Not everyone becomes a professional sports star, actor, or singer. Life has a funny way of working out, and often more than not plans don't work out as we thought the would...sometimes for the better.

because their idea of a good life is a 6 pack of cheap beer from Walmart and a 15' fishing boat in their driveway hooked up to their jacked up F250.. Not putting two gifted kids thru a good university and paying for it, all the while trying to live in a safe neighborhood, drive a safe and relatively new car and have a decent vacation every two or three years..

Funny you should ask this, I just flew with a Captain who was quite content that he stayed at Eagle.

He mentioned how his BizEx peers had mostly gone on to fly heavier iron at places like AA, ATA, UA, & HP. He also mentioned that while thay made a bit more than him for a while, he was never furloghed, (one of his pals was for 8 years!), he was never the junior line holder sitting reserve for years, he never had to commute, or move his family cross country.

In other words, being in the top 10% of a seniority list for 100k was a better life than being in the bottom 25% for 150k.

And out comes the stereotyping! YGBSM.

You can't be so naive to think that career regional pilots (and therefore all folks making less than 100k) don't want those exact things for themselves and their family. It might be hard to believe I know...but you can achieve all those things and then some making well below $100,000 if you are financially sound, live within your means, and don't live in a place where the median home mortgage costs you $3500/mo.

Undoubtedly one of the best posts I've read on this site...Good luck to you Jenn!

I've seen it many times.. that is the mentality of the $100K is a lot of money crowd.. Trailer park types..


where Einstein? A town of 5000 people with a Walmart for me to shop at? At todays rates, a typical home in Phoenix AZ (hardly an expensive place like the West and East coasts) costs about $450-$550K and therefore a mortgage of about $3500/mo for the average person with a 10% down payment.

Give me a break!

btw.. I'm quite sound financially, but not due to any money I made flying, that's for sure!

What comparison are you making? Payscales are on the front page of the website. You don't fly for a regional. Why are you starting a thread called, "Now for an anti-happy pilot post". If you are so unhappy then take a hike. Don't jump in and try and spread your funk around. Your comparison means nothing to anyone here. Who are you? Why do your opinions on payroll to you matter to us? It doesn't belong because you jumped into a regional thread and started talking about regional pay yet with a negative note intended while you don't work for a regional. Your opinions are yours and yours alone. Last thing anyone needs anywhere is someone running around trying to intentionally spread their negative funk on someone else and not plan to do anything about it.

CE750's post was great, i think the real arguments in this industry come because everyone of us has a different outlook on what a "nice house" and a "nice, and relatively new" car is. I was born and raised in the midwest and love it here, fortuantely, housing costs are pretty low compared to say new england, or california.

I'm not sure about you, but my fiance' could care less what car she was driving as long as it was reliabile, which means it could be a civic or a bmw, and she'd care none the less, as i recal new civics are normally cheaper than reliable bmw's (if those two words can go together).

And somehow, my parents managed to put me through college and neither of them are making 6 figures...akward.