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Old 01-22-2020, 08:40 PM   #1  
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Default Rejected by Envoy and Mesa

Background.. 1470 hours, clean FAA record, no criminal history, no DUI or anything. I have a 4 year degree with honors from a good university. Iím in my mid 20s. Iíve checked and rechecked my application. Worst thing is that I had a string of bad luck with driving in the last 18 months. I got pulled over 3 times, twice for speeding 10% over the limit (both times they were deferred and dropped from my driving record after 90 days.) I also got nailed during those same traffic stops for having a headlight out and license plates expired. I know, I messed up on these stupid little things but learned from it.

I interviewed with Envoy, showed up prepared with all paperwork and thoroughly studied. Interview went great, was told I was well prepared and did a good job. But 9 days later I got an email saying ďweíre sorry, we canít consider you at this time, apply again in 6 months.

So I applied to Mesa, they called me and I got a phone screen an hour later. It went fine. But then I get the same rejection email 30 minutes later.

I know how to interview because I went through many while trying to get a job out of college and I received offers. Iíve always shown up prepared and well dressed, shoes shined, paperwork in order.

What gives? Im prepared to bring at least 5 if not 10 recommendation letters to my next interview. Iím baffled especially in this hiring environment. Nervous to keep interviewing if this is going to keep happening, possibly closing more doors!
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Old 01-23-2020, 06:32 AM   #2  
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Under the circumstances you may be wise to stop interviewing until you analyze what's going on.

1) Pull ALL of your government records to make sure there's no adverse info mistakenly included in your file. NDR, FBI record, ENTIRE FAA record. You'll need FOIA for the last two, and that will take time, likely weeks or more. Also log into the new Pilot Record Database, but keep in mind that is in Beta mode and may not have complete info (mine does not).

2) Review ALL of your personal documents, look for errors, typos, logbook math, etc. Especially look for anything which might appear fraudulent or intentionally misleading. In this climate they should give you an opportunity to discuss an error, but if they think you're lying intentionally they'll just wash their hands.

3) The mesa thing is strange, for them to reject you that quickly. They wouldn't have had time to pull any federal records (I doubt they'd waste the effort BEFORE an interview) , so that sounds like it had to be something you gave them. Leads to number 4.

4) References. My suspicion is that this is where your problem is... mesa could in fact have made some phone calls in 30 minutes. Coming from entry-level, fewer is better, but you need 2-3. Your entry-level problem is that most of your references are not pilots, and likely not airline pilots. So you never know what they might say, even well-intentioned, that might go against the grain. With regionals you just need 2-3, more is not better but more IS riskier for you. Trim the fat there. When the time comes for majors more references IS better but only if they are pilots from that major (ideally) or another major (they'll want employee numbers to prove it).

The problem is more likely to be your past employment references, vice personal references. The GA/Flight school world is frankly a lot like Junior High School... lots of inter-personal drama. Think carefully about your history with your references. If you have ANY doubts or less-than-solid relationships there, try to find a different reference from the same employer, someone you can trust for sure. It can even be someone who no longer works there, as long as they were in a supervisory position when you were there.

For previous non-flying jobs, if you can direct them to HR that would be best. Nothing a non-aviation boss is going to say will make a positive impact, but they can sure have a negative impact if so inclined for some reason.

Also... you could have a girlfriend make "reference calls" to all of your references and previous employer contacts, identifying herself as an airline HR person. I know a guy who did this, and he found the problem (from where he least expected it).
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Old 01-23-2020, 06:48 AM   #3  
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Also, carefully check the basics, such as spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc., on your resume and application.

Simple typos on documents you are putting forward about yourself say a lot to recruiters about your attention to detail and what habits you will bring to their company. If you donít care enough about the documents youíre giving them, they will generally assume youíre not going to care about their airline or the job.

Also check employment dates. Make sure there are no unexplained gaps there. All your time since high school should be accounted for between school and work.

Otherwise, above advice is sound. The driving stuff doesnít sound like it should be too much of an issue, as most of it is not related to a moving violation.

Although some might consider it a bit much at the regional level, you may want to have a professional service review your application and resume. It could be that extra little bit that gets your foot in the door.

Whatever you do, donít give up if this is what you want to pursue. Keep applying and moving forward, and reapply at the six-month mark or whenever they say you can.
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:13 AM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpix89 View Post
Background.. 1470 hours, clean FAA record, no criminal history, no DUI or anything. I have a 4 year degree with honors from a good university. Iím in my mid 20s. Iíve checked and rechecked my application. Worst thing is that I had a string of bad luck with driving in the last 18 months. I got pulled over 3 times, twice for speeding 10% over the limit (both times they were deferred and dropped from my driving record after 90 days.) I also got nailed during those same traffic stops for having a headlight out and license plates expired. I know, I messed up on these stupid little things but learned from it.

I interviewed with Envoy, showed up prepared with all paperwork and thoroughly studied. Interview went great, was told I was well prepared and did a good job. But 9 days later I got an email saying ďweíre sorry, we canít consider you at this time, apply again in 6 months.

So I applied to Mesa, they called me and I got a phone screen an hour later. It went fine. But then I get the same rejection email 30 minutes later.

I know how to interview because I went through many while trying to get a job out of college and I received offers. Iíve always shown up prepared and well dressed, shoes shined, paperwork in order.

What gives? Im prepared to bring at least 5 if not 10 recommendation letters to my next interview. Iím baffled especially in this hiring environment. Nervous to keep interviewing if this is going to keep happening, possibly closing more doors!
Yeah this really seems like an odd situation, especially the Mesa part. This isn't meant to be a knock against them, but often when people cant get hired elsewhere they go to Mesa, as they seem to offer less resistance to some background issues. Also the fact that it happened so quickly, really is strange. I wish I had something more to offer but wish you the best of luck.
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:15 AM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpix89 View Post
Background.. 1470 hours, clean FAA record, no criminal history, no DUI or anything. I have a 4 year degree with honors from a good university. Iím in my mid 20s. Iíve checked and rechecked my application. Worst thing is that I had a string of bad luck with driving in the last 18 months. I got pulled over 3 times, twice for speeding 10% over the limit (both times they were deferred and dropped from my driving record after 90 days.) I also got nailed during those same traffic stops for having a headlight out and license plates expired. I know, I messed up on these stupid little things but learned from it.

I interviewed with Envoy, showed up prepared with all paperwork and thoroughly studied. Interview went great, was told I was well prepared and did a good job. But 9 days later I got an email saying ďweíre sorry, we canít consider you at this time, apply again in 6 months.

So I applied to Mesa, they called me and I got a phone screen an hour later. It went fine. But then I get the same rejection email 30 minutes later.

I know how to interview because I went through many while trying to get a job out of college and I received offers. Iíve always shown up prepared and well dressed, shoes shined, paperwork in order.

What gives? Im prepared to bring at least 5 if not 10 recommendation letters to my next interview. Iím baffled especially in this hiring environment. Nervous to keep interviewing if this is going to keep happening, possibly closing more doors!
bro
why are u saying you have had bad luck with driving in one sentence then saying these tickets were dropped! when asked about your driving record YOU SAY it is clean period! do you think you are the only young guy with a lead foot
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:13 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpix89 View Post
Worst thing is that I had a string of bad luck with driving in the last 18 months. I got pulled over 3 times, twice for speeding 10% over the limit (both times they were deferred and dropped from my driving record after 90 days.) I also got nailed during those same traffic stops for having a headlight out and license plates expired. I know, I messed up on these stupid little things but learned from it.
There could be something else but to me this part is pretty big. Speeding tickets arenít really that big of deal, but 3 in 18 months could be a deal breaker. The main problem though, is that it sounds like you had expired plates each of the 3 times. Then you claim you learned from it. Learning from it is doing it once and then never again. Or at least not for another few years. Repeating the same thing 2 more times in less than 18 months is not learning from your mistakes.
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:21 AM   #7  
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There could be something else but to me this part is pretty big. Speeding tickets arenít really that big of deal, but 3 in 18 months could be a deal breaker. The main problem though, is that it sounds like you had expired plates each of the 3 times. Then you claim you learned from it. Learning from it is doing it once and then never again. Or at least not for another few years. Repeating the same thing 2 more times in less than 18 months is not learning from your mistakes.
I think youíre right. I definitely own up to that fact.
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:34 AM   #8  
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I think youíre right. I definitely own up to that fact.
they have people with way worse background on mesa...there is more than the speed tickets
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:04 AM   #9  
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I went through my application (AirlineApp) and for the question that asked ďAre you eligible for an ATP or rATP per 61.159 or 61.160Ē I answered ďnoĒ because I donít have 1500 hours yet, maybe that hit them the wrong way and I was supposed to say I am eligible? Youíd think they would have asked that though to clarify
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:20 AM   #10  
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I would contact Raven Careers. They specialize in these kind of things and can give you guidance and help give you some answers for what could be going on.
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