View Poll Results: How do you want to furlough?
Full Pay, Last Day
91
69.47%
2 Kinds of Pain
7
5.34%
Keep Everyone
33
25.19%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Furlough Options
04-21-2020, 05:12 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 417
Originally Posted by ninerdriver
Listen, there's being a dick pilot, and then there's being a straight dick. If there are pilots at a company sitting on the sidelines due to a furlough, and someone at the company is picking up open time, then that someone is helping the company keep furloughed pilots furloughed. That's squarely in the straight dick range.
Personally, I'm happy to accept a temporary (i.e. reviewed-each-month) reduced monthly guarantee if it helps keep someone around longer.
04-21-2020, 05:14 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by bradthepilot
I don't think you get it both ways. If you view someone as "scum" for picking up OT while there are still pilots sidelined, it is logically inconsistent to view someone who is ok with furloughs so long as they get their guarantee as anything other than scum. Or vice versa.
Personally, I'm happy to accept a temporary (i.e. reviewed-each-month) reduced monthly guarantee if it helps keep someone around longer.
Personally, I'm happy to accept a temporary (i.e. reviewed-each-month) reduced monthly guarantee if it helps keep someone around longer.
04-21-2020, 05:41 PM
#25
Porco Rosso
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by bradthepilot
I don't think you get it both ways. If you view someone as "scum" for picking up OT while there are still pilots sidelined, it is logically inconsistent to view someone who is ok with furloughs so long as they get their guarantee as anything other than scum. Or vice versa.
Personally, I'm happy to accept a temporary (i.e. reviewed-each-month) reduced monthly guarantee if it helps keep someone around longer.
Personally, I'm happy to accept a temporary (i.e. reviewed-each-month) reduced monthly guarantee if it helps keep someone around longer.
In order to protect that long-term MMG for everyone, you'd have to take the furloughs over the initial hit to MMG.
If I could 100% guarantee that a hit to MMG would be temporary and absolutely result with no furloughs, then I'd be in. I don't trust the company to not furlough later anyway, though, and I don't trust a bankruptcy court to not make MMG concessions semi-permanent.
04-21-2020, 05:44 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,280
The airlines have nobody to blame but themselves for the full pay until the last day stance. At every downturn they have taken advantage of the labor force pulling this "we are all in this together" and "everybody needs to sacrifice" routine. But when things pick back up historically pay and QOL restoration lags behind by years. Meanwhile the Airline and their stockholders are making bank with record profits. We have to learn from our mistakes in the past.
04-21-2020, 08:11 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 344
It seems.to me that the company would prefer to have a higher MMG once times turn around since they are now getting more productivity out of each pilot. If you are using 4000 pilots at 75 hours a month instead of 6000 pilots at 50.hours a month you are still producing the same amount of Revenue passenger miles without needing 2000 more line checks, 2000 more sim checks, and 2000 health insurance policies.
additionally once a pilot hits the max social security income their hourly costs drop by the companies 6.2% FICA tax. There are more fixed costs each of us have that is more cost effective spread over more hours. At my company even just getting close to MMG instead of 12 to 25 hours over that is a pipe dream for jr guys.
additionally once a pilot hits the max social security income their hourly costs drop by the companies 6.2% FICA tax. There are more fixed costs each of us have that is more cost effective spread over more hours. At my company even just getting close to MMG instead of 12 to 25 hours over that is a pipe dream for jr guys.
04-21-2020, 08:50 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,054
Originally Posted by captive apple
Company comes to you and says, "we have to cut pilot costs by 1/3 from monthly guarantee. We have three options, which do you pick?".
Note: The larger the furlough numbers = larger down grades. ie guarantee but at FO rates.
Note: The larger the furlough numbers = larger down grades. ie guarantee but at FO rates.
04-22-2020, 04:31 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: CRJ9 CA
Posts: 4,083
Originally Posted by Cyio
This right here. Envoy gave concessions up the wa-zoo and it just recently got some watered down version of some of them back. Once you give something up it ain’t coming back, not without a fight.
It drives me crazy that the pilot groups are always the ones bailing out the company. Why does that always have to be the first knob they turn? My guess would be that traditionally it has always worked.
It drives me crazy that the pilot groups are always the ones bailing out the company. Why does that always have to be the first knob they turn? My guess would be that traditionally it has always worked.
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