Oh yeah talk to any one that flew for Colgan during the 2003-2010 era and they can tell you stories that new pilots couldn’t even comprehend. It was a bad time.

During that time I was working for the highest paid regional with one of the best contracts and it doesn’t compare to how far improved the work rules and career are now for even the worse airline. What Colgan was doing during that time was criminal and I am still surprised no one went to jail over their work practices when they came out to the public.

PBS FrontLine “flying cheap”.

I mean one question. What about European pilots sitting in the right seat of 737’s and 320’s with 250 hours? Who can explain that? Those who think you need to be a CFI for 2 years and 1500 hours what are your thoughts on this? Are they better trained? Are they more intelligent that pilots here in the US?


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You assumed wrong, twice.
You’re barking up the wrong tree and twisting arguments.
If the 1500 rule would have been in place then it would NOT have prevented that accident from happening.
It was not lack of experience or the believe thereof.
He had 2500+ hrs on property.
Jail is not the answer for everything but some people involved here should have gone to jail, FAA included.
Where he did his P2F was an ‘airline’ under FAA supervision and where he subsequently got hired (Colgan) was an ‘airline’ equally under FAA “supervision”.
I just threw up a little in my mouth even writing that.
These airlines, past and present get away with literally murder.
What he did 2500 hrs prior has no relevance to that accident.

The thing about foreign pilots is that they are highly discouraged from hand flying or flat out forbidden. This is common in Asia. Sat next to a guy in a 737 sim that could even follow the FD. He had 3000 hours.

I was there from 05-11. It was the most fun I’ve ever had being a pilot. Work at delta now. Actually quite a few people that worked at colgan during that time are at delta now. Worked out well for a lot of us.

He might have learned basic airmanship if he had 1500 hours in GA. He was a low-time P2F kind of regional pilot. You're not going to learn basic airmanship in most 121.

Non-US airline pilots regularly crash (and near-crash) because of basic airmanship failures. Even European airlines.

We haven't done that here in a while, and it's too long of a streak to be just dumb luck.

Some GA (or mil) time gives you some actual flying experience, some challenges you don't get often in 121, and some PIC practice.

Pilots outside the US are often very well trained on book learning, computer programing, and auto-pilot engaging, Better than US pilots in fact, but somehow that still doesn't make up for lack of airmanship.

Just a reminder. The United States reports the highest number of civil airliner accidents in the world. Around 1200 fatalities in commercial air transport in the US from 2015 to 2019 compared to 700 in all of Europe. Don’t get me wrong I’m not European. I’m just saying that this 1500 hours rule doesn’t make any sense. Everyday thousands of flights in Europe (Ryanair, Easyjet etc…) are taking off with copilots that are 25 years old who got their jobs with 250 hours logged. Do you think these compagnies are putting their passengers and planes in danger because of that? This is all politics here in the US. It has nothing to do with the fact that 1500 hours makes you a better pilot to drive a airliner.


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The last airline hull loss was Colgan and the last fatality was that SWA engine failure. Where on earth are you getting 1200 fatalities? You have to be including part 91 stuff which is not the same.