Lobbying to roll back 1500 hr rule:
#51
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 63
And the Airmail act, which is important. 61/141 isn’t college/no college
The advice prior from grads was always to get a degree is something else to fall back on, but now you and the school got something out of it so it’s sooper important. It was always about money like nearly everything.
The advice prior from grads was always to get a degree is something else to fall back on, but now you and the school got something out of it so it’s sooper important. It was always about money like nearly everything.
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 307
ALL part 141 approved universities are going to put out graduates who can fly to ACS standards AND be well versed in ground knowledge and theory.
SOME part 61 students will also have comparative ground knowledge.
Other part 61 students will simply memorize Sheppard air and pass their written with a 90% or higher. Then they will memorize the ASA oral exam guidebook at best. Alternatively, they will memorize a 1 page printout of checkride gouge detailing exactly what questions to expect on the oral. They might pass their checkride with flying colors despite having a very thin layer of knowledge
Both part 141 and 61 can pass the same checkride and still not be equal.
SOME part 61 students will also have comparative ground knowledge.
Other part 61 students will simply memorize Sheppard air and pass their written with a 90% or higher. Then they will memorize the ASA oral exam guidebook at best. Alternatively, they will memorize a 1 page printout of checkride gouge detailing exactly what questions to expect on the oral. They might pass their checkride with flying colors despite having a very thin layer of knowledge
Both part 141 and 61 can pass the same checkride and still not be equal.
#54
ALL part 141 approved universities are going to put out graduates who can fly to ACS standards AND be well versed in ground knowledge and theory.
SOME part 61 students will also have comparative ground knowledge.
Other part 61 students will simply memorize Sheppard air and pass their written with a 90% or higher. Then they will memorize the ASA oral exam guidebook at best. Alternatively, they will memorize a 1 page printout of checkride gouge detailing exactly what questions to expect on the oral. They might pass their checkride with flying colors despite having a very thin layer of knowledge
Both part 141 and 61 can pass the same checkride and still not be equal.
SOME part 61 students will also have comparative ground knowledge.
Other part 61 students will simply memorize Sheppard air and pass their written with a 90% or higher. Then they will memorize the ASA oral exam guidebook at best. Alternatively, they will memorize a 1 page printout of checkride gouge detailing exactly what questions to expect on the oral. They might pass their checkride with flying colors despite having a very thin layer of knowledge
Both part 141 and 61 can pass the same checkride and still not be equal.
Hiring is of course a different matter.
But legally they should all be treated the same. The current rules smack of favoritism and elitism.
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 109
Alternate take:
1500 hour rule makes us less safe.
Why?
Because now the regionals are so desperate to put someone in the right seat, they will hire nearly anyone who meets the hour time requirement ignoring other potential factors. Quality of FO's decrease as a result.
1500 hour rule makes us less safe.
Why?
Because now the regionals are so desperate to put someone in the right seat, they will hire nearly anyone who meets the hour time requirement ignoring other potential factors. Quality of FO's decrease as a result.
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 452
CFI has never been a good job. It wasn’t 40 years ago, it won’t be 40 years from now. What is different, and I agree with some posts I’ve read, is that now we are almost forcing CFIs to instruct 1200+ hours, where before the 1500 rule, they would just teach long enough to be sick of it and bail to a real job. There are other, much better options to time build, CFI is obviously still the most prevalent. Who knows, if majors keep sucking the regionals dry, and they dry up and stop service to small podunk towns, the Fed may open up more EAS that would allow more lower time pilots to have a stepping stone between CFI and FO.
And the whole “I’m a better pilot because I learned pt141 and you did pt61” is ridiculous. We all watch the same UND/King Schools/YouTube videos and study the same books now days. You still have good and bad students either way. You’re not the Second Coming of Bob Hoover because you learned pt141
And the whole “I’m a better pilot because I learned pt141 and you did pt61” is ridiculous. We all watch the same UND/King Schools/YouTube videos and study the same books now days. You still have good and bad students either way. You’re not the Second Coming of Bob Hoover because you learned pt141
#57
Have you taught at part 61 and part 141 flight schools?
Have you ever had an examiner who gave you a really easy checkride and one that gave you a really hard checkride?
#58
Do they really go interview every person on your references and then go interview people those people mentioned for a SIDA badge? I don’t think SIDA would make it a TS definite. TS investigations take months and are much more than a criminal check. Have poor financials? No TS. Along with a myriad of other reasons to be denied.
That's why I said "probably". Most of the pilots I know would be good for a TS. Just because they dig into your background doesn't mean they actually find very many people with an aunt who's a KGB sleeper agent.
#59
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 63
CFI has never been a good job. It wasn’t 40 years ago, it won’t be 40 years from now. What is different, and I agree with some posts I’ve read, is that now we are almost forcing CFIs to instruct 1200+ hours, where before the 1500 rule, they would just teach long enough to be sick of it and bail to a real job. There are other, much better options to time build, CFI is obviously still the most prevalent. Who knows, if majors keep sucking the regionals dry, and they dry up and stop service to small podunk towns, the Fed may open up more EAS that would allow more lower time pilots to have a stepping stone between CFI and FO.
And the whole “I’m a better pilot because I learned pt141 and you did pt61” is ridiculous. We all watch the same UND/King Schools/YouTube videos and study the same books now days. You still have good and bad students either way. You’re not the Second Coming of Bob Hoover because you learned pt141
And the whole “I’m a better pilot because I learned pt141 and you did pt61” is ridiculous. We all watch the same UND/King Schools/YouTube videos and study the same books now days. You still have good and bad students either way. You’re not the Second Coming of Bob Hoover because you learned pt141
I’ve been a student and taught in both part 61 and 141 programs. 141 programs are tougher to succeed in. My school had a 60% dropout rate in their 141 program due to the rigerious curriculum. It’s unfortunate those folks weren’t able to make it through, but that’s just how the program is.
So yes, we may all study the same material and source information, but the evaluation processes are completely different.
Additionally, in my airline new hire class you could easily tell who was a 141 student, a 61 student, or those that went through the military. Take that as you will
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 963
additionally, I’ve never had any instructors at any airline ask us if we were 141 or 61 students. So there is no way to just tell by how someone performs what type of civilian initial training one did.
where the separation occurs is how one builds time. CFI, banner tow, survey, plane owner going $100 hamburgers. Yeah, you can separate some wheat from the chaff there. But 61 vs 141. Hell no. And I’ve done both.
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