I can attest to that. The 141 college/program I went through dove pretty deep through the aviation/airline industry including history, law, policy, systems, power plants, aerodynamics, etc. 60 credits is the minimum and a low ball on the amount of actual aviation credits these schools require. I ended up with well over 60 aviation credits throughout my time there.

 

ALL part 141 approved universities are going to put out graduates who can fly to ACS standards AND be well versed in ground knowledge and theory.

SOME part 61 students will also have comparative ground knowledge.

Other part 61 students will simply memorize Sheppard air and pass their written with a 90% or higher. Then they will memorize the ASA oral exam guidebook at best. Alternatively, they will memorize a 1 page printout of checkride gouge detailing exactly what questions to expect on the oral. They might pass their checkride with flying colors despite having a very thin layer of knowledge


Both part 141 and 61 can pass the same checkride and still not be equal.

 

Went back and re-read those regs and got it now. Somehow, I missed the fact that 135.243(a)(1) requires an ATP. Thanks.

 

Yes, exactly. However if they can pass the exact same checkride, then they should be equal in the eyes of the law.

Hiring is of course a different matter.

But legally they should all be treated the same. The current rules smack of favoritism and elitism.

 

And it forces people who have no interest in being a CFI, teach students. They will do the bare minimum and just blow through it as fast as they can, building hours, giving sub-par instruction. Maybe they should make regional FO's only have to have 250 hours, and a CFI have an ATP...LOL

 

CFI has never been a good job. It wasn’t 40 years ago, it won’t be 40 years from now. What is different, and I agree with some posts I’ve read, is that now we are almost forcing CFIs to instruct 1200+ hours, where before the 1500 rule, they would just teach long enough to be sick of it and bail to a real job. There are other, much better options to time build, CFI is obviously still the most prevalent. Who knows, if majors keep sucking the regionals dry, and they dry up and stop service to small podunk towns, the Fed may open up more EAS that would allow more lower time pilots to have a stepping stone between CFI and FO.

And the whole “I’m a better pilot because I learned pt141 and you did pt61” is ridiculous. We all watch the same UND/King Schools/YouTube videos and study the same books now days. You still have good and bad students either way. You’re not the Second Coming of Bob Hoover because you learned pt141

 

Have you been a student at part 61 and part 141 flight schools?

Have you taught at part 61 and part 141 flight schools?

Have you ever had an examiner who gave you a really easy checkride and one that gave you a really hard checkride?

 

That's why I said "probably". Most of the pilots I know would be good for a TS. Just because they dig into your background doesn't mean they actually find very many people with an aunt who's a KGB sleeper agent.

 

You’re right. Except most 141 programs have you go through every single task item in the ACS for their checkrides. That’s not including stage checks that come prior to that to be eligible for an end of course ride.

I’ve been a student and taught in both part 61 and 141 programs. 141 programs are tougher to succeed in. My school had a 60% dropout rate in their 141 program due to the rigerious curriculum. It’s unfortunate those folks weren’t able to make it through, but that’s just how the program is.

So yes, we may all study the same material and source information, but the evaluation processes are completely different.

Additionally, in my airline new hire class you could easily tell who was a 141 student, a 61 student, or those that went through the military. Take that as you will

 

I call complete b.s. on this statement. I’ve never been in an Indoc class where we discussed what part we did our training under.

additionally, I’ve never had any instructors at any airline ask us if we were 141 or 61 students. So there is no way to just tell by how someone performs what type of civilian initial training one did.

where the separation occurs is how one builds time. CFI, banner tow, survey, plane owner going $100 hamburgers. Yeah, you can separate some wheat from the chaff there. But 61 vs 141. Hell no. And I’ve done both.