DEC into new airline, how difficult is it?
05-14-2022, 07:13 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,898
Originally Posted by flippedr6
One other thing that people don't think about is the protection part. As a new hire, you are on probation for a year. That's a year in the left seat with non to few union protections.
05-14-2022, 08:42 AM
#12
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Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: jungle jet
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by PUNK
For those who got thier 1000 121 hours at one airline as an FO, say GoJet... And then become a DEC at Endeavor.
How hard is the transition?
How hard is the transition?
I did 4 years as a check pilot at a regional with a DEC program. It was very rare that I saw someone come in to a new airplane, new airline and new seat succeed. Even ones that were upgrading for the first time into the same type struggled mightily. The very few that excelled were from the previous “generation” where fast upgrade wasn’t a thing and had thousands of hours and many years of experience as an FO at another airline to draw upon.
In addition to learning a new airline’s SOP and culture, possibly a new airplane, along with learning how to be a captain, you’re also going to be dealing with inexperienced check pilots teaching you, who themselves are still learning the role.
Upgrade at a regional can be hard, so much gets dumped onto the captain. In this environment you’ll be pushed eight ways from Sunday; scheduling, dispatch, gate agents, passengers, FAs, chief pilots, FOs, mechanics, all trying to take your certificate from you. And as been pointed out, you’ll be doing it not just on probation, but without the foundation of good relationships developed over time.
Unless you are absolutely, 100% positive you are ready to take on that task, I would pass. That you’re asking is a good sign; if you had no hesitations about it, that is a sure sign you’re not ready and prepared; way too far to the left on the Dunning-Krueger curve, possibly near the peak of Mount Stupid.
We often say that flying is a very, very small part of being a Captain, and that is true. The problem is, too many think that to mean that it is not important. It is vitally important, and should not be any conscious concern, as there are so many other things that are occupying your attention. 1000 hours SIC is, in my opinion, the bare minimum required to prepare oneself to upgrade at their own airline; my preferred metric would be to see each season twice. At the very least, two winters, and by winters I don’t mean flying around the warm weather areas in and out of Houston, Miami, LA and Phoenix.
This is a rambling post, but in a long way of saying it, I strongly discourage attempting to upgrade for the first time as a 1000 hour FO as a DEC at another airline. It almost never goes well.
05-14-2022, 11:12 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by c402fr8er
It is time to be brutally honest with yourself. And I mean brutally. What was your background before 121, how well prepared did you feel as you started IOE, and how much time have you spent preparing yourself for upgrade?
I did 4 years as a check pilot at a regional with a DEC program. It was very rare that I saw someone come in to a new airplane, new airline and new seat succeed. Even ones that were upgrading for the first time into the same type struggled mightily. The very few that excelled were from the previous “generation” where fast upgrade wasn’t a thing and had thousands of hours and many years of experience as an FO at another airline to draw upon.
In addition to learning a new airline’s SOP and culture, possibly a new airplane, along with learning how to be a captain, you’re also going to be dealing with inexperienced check pilots teaching you, who themselves are still learning the role.
Upgrade at a regional can be hard, so much gets dumped onto the captain. In this environment you’ll be pushed eight ways from Sunday; scheduling, dispatch, gate agents, passengers, FAs, chief pilots, FOs, mechanics, all trying to take your certificate from you. And as been pointed out, you’ll be doing it not just on probation, but without the foundation of good relationships developed over time.
Unless you are absolutely, 100% positive you are ready to take on that task, I would pass. That you’re asking is a good sign; if you had no hesitations about it, that is a sure sign you’re not ready and prepared; way too far to the left on the Dunning-Krueger curve, possibly near the peak of Mount Stupid.
We often say that flying is a very, very small part of being a Captain, and that is true. The problem is, too many think that to mean that it is not important. It is vitally important, and should not be any conscious concern, as there are so many other things that are occupying your attention. 1000 hours SIC is, in my opinion, the bare minimum required to prepare oneself to upgrade at their own airline; my preferred metric would be to see each season twice. At the very least, two winters, and by winters I don’t mean flying around the warm weather areas in and out of Houston, Miami, LA and Phoenix.
This is a rambling post, but in a long way of saying it, I strongly discourage attempting to upgrade for the first time as a 1000 hour FO as a DEC at another airline. It almost never goes well.
I did 4 years as a check pilot at a regional with a DEC program. It was very rare that I saw someone come in to a new airplane, new airline and new seat succeed. Even ones that were upgrading for the first time into the same type struggled mightily. The very few that excelled were from the previous “generation” where fast upgrade wasn’t a thing and had thousands of hours and many years of experience as an FO at another airline to draw upon.
In addition to learning a new airline’s SOP and culture, possibly a new airplane, along with learning how to be a captain, you’re also going to be dealing with inexperienced check pilots teaching you, who themselves are still learning the role.
Upgrade at a regional can be hard, so much gets dumped onto the captain. In this environment you’ll be pushed eight ways from Sunday; scheduling, dispatch, gate agents, passengers, FAs, chief pilots, FOs, mechanics, all trying to take your certificate from you. And as been pointed out, you’ll be doing it not just on probation, but without the foundation of good relationships developed over time.
Unless you are absolutely, 100% positive you are ready to take on that task, I would pass. That you’re asking is a good sign; if you had no hesitations about it, that is a sure sign you’re not ready and prepared; way too far to the left on the Dunning-Krueger curve, possibly near the peak of Mount Stupid.
We often say that flying is a very, very small part of being a Captain, and that is true. The problem is, too many think that to mean that it is not important. It is vitally important, and should not be any conscious concern, as there are so many other things that are occupying your attention. 1000 hours SIC is, in my opinion, the bare minimum required to prepare oneself to upgrade at their own airline; my preferred metric would be to see each season twice. At the very least, two winters, and by winters I don’t mean flying around the warm weather areas in and out of Houston, Miami, LA and Phoenix.
This is a rambling post, but in a long way of saying it, I strongly discourage attempting to upgrade for the first time as a 1000 hour FO as a DEC at another airline. It almost never goes well.
05-14-2022, 11:56 AM
#15
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,203
Originally Posted by AirBear
As a DEC your quality of life is going to suck so badly I wouldn't consider it unless you live in or near that airline's junior base.
05-14-2022, 12:16 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by amcnd
most of the DEC i know. Do it. Get the “recency”. And are gone to a major within a year… Its a good way yo get back in the game so your app will get looked at..
05-14-2022, 01:05 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,898
Originally Posted by PUNK
Let me guess, psa
You're probably better upgrading where you are or moving on to a LCC as an FO on your way to United, Dal or AA.
05-14-2022, 02:56 PM
#18
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by amcnd
most of the DEC i know. Do it. Get the “recency”. And are gone to a major within a year… Its a good way yo get back in the game so your app will get looked at..
Originally Posted by tallpilot
Absolutely. For experienced pilots, especially lost decade people with years in the right seat, it's a good way to get current and get noticed. For an inexperienced pilot with the minimum requirements trying to skip a few months waiting for upgrade or collect a big signing bonus, it's mostly just a good way to collect a PRIA ding.
05-15-2022, 09:26 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,281
With everybody being able to upgrade as soon as they qualify and with the Major's hiring like they are there should be no reason big enough to cause somebody to enter one of these programs unless they are coming from outside Part 121. It' a dumb move
05-15-2022, 02:18 PM
#20
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by LoneStar32
With everybody being able to upgrade as soon as they qualify and with the Major's hiring like they are there should be no reason big enough to cause somebody to enter one of these programs unless they are coming from outside Part 121. It' a dumb move
I would argue that's probably a dumb move if you DON'T have prior 121... they system just isn't designed for that.
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