Skywest And Alpa

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07-05-2007, 03:07 PM

#31

stickwiggler

Gets Weekends Off

Thread Starter

Joined APC: Jun 2006

Position: Part 121, 135 & Military background

Posts: 379

Quote:

Originally Posted by L1a4u4r0a

Ok I've argued with Stick in the past, but I have to say I definitely agree with him on this one. Everyone makes mistakes, I bet every single one of you have done SOMETHING you could have either lost your job for (without a union) or been violated by the FAA. Sure letting an intern fly sounds stupid but at the time it probably seemed harmless, I mean with two pilots watching there's not much they could possibly do that would be more dangerous than someone flying a first IOE flight. the interns at ASA fly the sims more than the trainees, the only difference is they aren't yet trained in standardization. I'm not defending it because I think it was a good idea, obviously stupid, but just because its an example of how someone's judgement could be clouded just like everysingle pilot out there has done at some point in time. Would you want your family on an airplane with an FO on IOE doing their first landing ever? probably not. I'd say that's more dangerous than letting an intern sit in the pilot seat during cruise. As I said I'm not excusing the behaviour, because it was not something that should be done, but would you really think a pilot doing that deserves to lose their job, and ruin thier career for the rest of their life? I'd say that's a little harsh. I think Unions are great and obviously it would be of benefit to us at ASA if skywest had a union, but if I worked at an entirely different airline I would still tell the pilots at skywest I think it is definitely worth it. Having someone back you up in case of an emergency, and also to help improve the standards for all pilots. Although ASA may not look like a good example of that because of the pay right now, but there are several things in our contract that are much better than the FAA rules for rest and duty periods that better the QOL.

L1,
You are dead on. You're right, and I don't mind one bit you saying it was a stupid thing to do, and some harsh punishment was probably in order. It's also a fact that all 3 chief pilots in DFW wrote letters to the GO and recommended an alternate punishment, each less than termination. I've got no sour grapes. The company had to make an example out of me to make sure no one pulled off that kind of stunt again. The fact that much worse things have happened and just about every intern has told me a story of 'what they got away with' does not excuse me.

You are also correct in the rest of your post. Or as my argument for the Arbitrator was going to be....

good judgement is not created by a singular event, nor should it be destroyed. It took me 14 years of being a proffesional pilot to screw up. It just doesn't seem fair that 30 seconds should end it all.

Other than the little Nancy questioning my manhood, this has been a good debate and I hope it continues.

Stick

07-05-2007, 05:07 PM

#32

chitownpilot

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jun 2007

Position: CRJ-200/700 FO

Posts: 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deez340

Wow!?! After a look at your previous post i realized what i was dealing with so i probably should just ignore you but i can't resist. anyway what in the world does your last line (or any of the others for that matter) have to do with our subject?!? not to mention i would venture to guess that it didn't bother you when the previous administration fired over 90 us attorneys at one time without cause.

back to Skywest and ALPA. does anyone know what percentage of Skywest pilots are in favor of ALPA representation?

Not sure if it was last year or before then, but a friend of mine at SkyWest told me that the last tally was 85% AGAINST ALPA.

07-05-2007, 08:26 PM

#33

EngineOut

Time to make the donuts!

Joined APC: Dec 2005

Position: B737 FO

Posts: 303

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitownpilot

Not sure if it was last year or before then, but a friend of mine at SkyWest told me that the last tally was 85% AGAINST ALPA.

Judging purely from a straw-poll of the CAs I've flown with, I'd say this is categorically inaccurate. My experience is the exact opposite: 85% in support of ALPA.

I do think it is a matter of domiciles, however. I'd bet SLC has an anti-ALPA majority. I understand all other stations are generally more in favor of unionization.

Just my 2 cents. No one will know until the vote...if it ever happens.

07-05-2007, 11:16 PM

#34

reelbigchair

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Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: 757/767 FO

Posts: 408

I'm gonna split these two extremes...... I've flown with a couple of the organizers who have told me that a little over 50 percent of the cards are in..... BUT many of those are from guys who have since moved on (united furloughs), so it's hard for them to keep track of exactly how many are valid at any one time, the vote will be close

07-06-2007, 04:59 AM

#35

stinsonjr

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jun 2006

Posts: 919

Quote:

Originally Posted by L1a4u4r0a

Sure letting an intern fly sounds stupid but at the time it probably seemed harmless, I mean with two pilots watching there's not much they could possibly do that would be more dangerous than someone flying a first IOE flight. the interns at ASA fly the sims more than the trainees, the only difference is they aren't yet trained in standardization. I'm not defending it because I think it was a good idea, obviously stupid, but just because its an example of how someone's judgement could be clouded just like everysingle pilot out there has done at some point in time. Would you want your family on an airplane with an FO on IOE doing their first landing ever? probably not. I'd say that's more dangerous than letting an intern sit in the pilot seat during cruise. .

Not to hijack, but there is a very famous crash, Aeroflot I believe, that happened when the CA let his son fly the airplane. The FO was sitting there, and the CA was directly behind, but the kid did something (bumped the AP switch or something) and the jet (not sure what kind - bigger than an RJ) crashed, killing everyone. Saw the story on History channel a long time ago so i can't remember all the facts. It seemed similiar to Eastern 401 - while distracted by the landing gear light, someone nudged the yoke which switched off the A/P, and the L-1011 crashes into the Everglades.