Don't make laterals!
08-01-2007, 01:36 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: EMB-145 FO
Posts: 84
I disagree completely. First and foremost you must make the decision thats right for YOU. Not all regionals are so terrible (although I will admit most are), and if moving to a better one benefits you, that do it and don't look back. I made a "lateral" move from Trans States to Expressjet about 6 months back, and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I don't regret it one bit, and I have to seriously doubt if any one in the HR dept. at a major would care. I think anybody in their right mind would have done the same thing. Consider a few of the factors in my own personal case:
2nd year FO pay at XJT = 4th year FO pay at TSA
2 leg commute at TSA vs. NO commute at XJT
Great contract and work rules at XJT vs. some of the worst in the industry at TSA.
Horrible pilot-hating mgmt at TSA vs. decent mgmt at XJT
Why suffer at a lousy company? I'd strongly encourage any one to do the same thing. Also, consider one other factor: Just because you get the flight time, and specifically the coveted 1000PIC doesn't mean that you're garanteed to get that job at UPS. In other words, you might be at a regional longer than you think. I'd much rather be stuck at XJT.
2nd year FO pay at XJT = 4th year FO pay at TSA
2 leg commute at TSA vs. NO commute at XJT
Great contract and work rules at XJT vs. some of the worst in the industry at TSA.
Horrible pilot-hating mgmt at TSA vs. decent mgmt at XJT
Why suffer at a lousy company? I'd strongly encourage any one to do the same thing. Also, consider one other factor: Just because you get the flight time, and specifically the coveted 1000PIC doesn't mean that you're garanteed to get that job at UPS. In other words, you might be at a regional longer than you think. I'd much rather be stuck at XJT.
08-01-2007, 02:03 PM
#12
New boss = Old boss
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Alright, alright! I agree that Mesa to almost anywhere is a move up. My views may be out of date. In my day, (God that make me feel old) the regionals were strickley turbo props. I'm talking Metros, Bandits, Saab 340, EMB-120s etc. CRJ and ERJ were barely on the drawing board. Todays regionals are a different animal. Still, I would think that a major or large jet operator is the goal for most prospective airline pilots. If that's you, I believe moving from RJ operator to RJ operator just shows a lack of continuity and commitment or, worse yet, terminations.
If you make such a move you need valid reasons to explain to the next interviewer. Valid reasons?
* Other company went out of business
* Spouse transfered across country and you wanted to move there anyway.
* Other company shrinking, losing larger aircraft, upgrade time too long.
* The new company has bigger equipment and is more career oriented.
I've served on interview boards. It's no secret that most pilots are just building time. If I saw a guy coming from a comparable company I would wonder why. If I didn't buy their reasons, I would move on to the next candidate. A shortage of candidates, however, changes things.
If you make such a move you need valid reasons to explain to the next interviewer. Valid reasons?
* Other company went out of business
* Spouse transfered across country and you wanted to move there anyway.
* Other company shrinking, losing larger aircraft, upgrade time too long.
* The new company has bigger equipment and is more career oriented.
I've served on interview boards. It's no secret that most pilots are just building time. If I saw a guy coming from a comparable company I would wonder why. If I didn't buy their reasons, I would move on to the next candidate. A shortage of candidates, however, changes things.
08-01-2007, 02:43 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
You are right, you should only look at moving up in your career once you get the required experience as fast as you can. Speaking or which, maybe you should think of moving up in yours, have you applied to FedEx, UPS, or SW?
And yes, I read your post, but I came from a company where I HAD to make a lateral move due to the company going out of business. I had no PIC time and had no other alternative. With that in mind, not EVERYBODY sees this job/career as a race or a sprint to the finish line. There are way to many outside and unknown factors for you to criticize why somebody would make a lateral move in the regionals.
And yes, I read your post, but I came from a company where I HAD to make a lateral move due to the company going out of business. I had no PIC time and had no other alternative. With that in mind, not EVERYBODY sees this job/career as a race or a sprint to the finish line. There are way to many outside and unknown factors for you to criticize why somebody would make a lateral move in the regionals.
08-01-2007, 02:48 PM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,439
Originally Posted by mike734
Alright, alright! I agree that Mesa to almost anywhere is a move up. My views may be out of date. In my day, (God that make me feel old) the regionals were strickley turbo props. I'm talking Metros, Bandits, Saab 340, EMB-120s etc. CRJ and ERJ were barely on the drawing board. Todays regionals are a different animal. Still, I would think that a major or large jet operator is the goal for most prospective airline pilots. If that's you, I believe moving from RJ operator to RJ operator just shows a lack of continuity and commitment or, worse yet, terminations.
If you make such a move you need valid reasons to explain to the next interviewer. Valid reasons?
* Other company went out of business
* Spouse transfered across country and you wanted to move there anyway.
* Other company shrinking, losing larger aircraft, upgrade time too long.
* The new company has bigger equipment and is more career oriented.
I've served on interview boards. It's no secret that most pilots are just building time. If I saw a guy coming from a comparable company I would wonder why. If I didn't buy their reasons, I would move on to the next candidate. A shortage of candidates, however, changes things.
If you make such a move you need valid reasons to explain to the next interviewer. Valid reasons?
* Other company went out of business
* Spouse transfered across country and you wanted to move there anyway.
* Other company shrinking, losing larger aircraft, upgrade time too long.
* The new company has bigger equipment and is more career oriented.
I've served on interview boards. It's no secret that most pilots are just building time. If I saw a guy coming from a comparable company I would wonder why. If I didn't buy their reasons, I would move on to the next candidate. A shortage of candidates, however, changes things.
I suspect that nearly half the pilots at XJet, AWAC, Horizon, CHQ/REP came from other airlines. I know that to be the case with SKW.
08-01-2007, 02:56 PM
#15
Saab Saab Phooey!
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Set Hundo
Posts: 479
Originally Posted by plasticpi
I suppose that might work when they don't have other pilots knocking at the door, but I think there's still too many replacements...
And, yes, I concede that getting closer to your family is a legitimate reason to move... I hadn't thought about that as I'm not married. But, what is that pilot going to do with his/her family when hired by a major with no base close to home?
And, yes, I concede that getting closer to your family is a legitimate reason to move... I hadn't thought about that as I'm not married. But, what is that pilot going to do with his/her family when hired by a major with no base close to home?
08-01-2007, 03:30 PM
#16
New boss = Old boss
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
You are right, you should only look at moving up in your career once you get the required experience as fast as you can. Speaking or which, maybe you should think of moving up in yours, have you applied to FedEx, UPS, or SW?
And yes, I read your post, but I came from a company where I HAD to make a lateral move due to the company going out of business. I had no PIC time and had no other alternative. With that in mind, not EVERYBODY sees this job/career as a race or a sprint to the finish line. There are way to many outside and unknown factors for you to criticize why somebody would make a lateral move in the regionals.
And yes, I read your post, but I came from a company where I HAD to make a lateral move due to the company going out of business. I had no PIC time and had no other alternative. With that in mind, not EVERYBODY sees this job/career as a race or a sprint to the finish line. There are way to many outside and unknown factors for you to criticize why somebody would make a lateral move in the regionals.
08-01-2007, 04:30 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: CR7 Capt
Posts: 1,621
I have always tried to have the attitude of moving up in equip and pay. I went from commutair 1900 to Eagle ERJ145 and where I go next I don't know. I do know two things. I hate commuting and I'm soo sick+tired of making no money. Though I will admit Eagle is much better for money, I feel like I am raking in the cash. I am clearing nearly $1000 more a month than I did at commutair. Really though it still not the greatest salary out there. Could be a lot better. I hoping to step it up to corporate or legacy. Not sure. I am trying to get as much time in on my first year at Eagle and make the move as an FO. I really do not want to get used to capt pay and then take big hit in pay. Its not easy, I limit myself because I don't want to move but, I am willing to deal with it. It leaves me either AA or USair. Both not really the two most desirable companies. AA is really backlogged with flowbacks and contracts. USair first year pay is horrible, 25$ c'mon. Though the E190 seems to be $41, not sure why, I can't seem to get an answer to that. So Oh well, theres my two two cents.....
08-01-2007, 04:57 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Originally Posted by ERJ135
I have always tried to have the attitude of moving up in equip and pay. I went from commutair 1900 to Eagle ERJ145 and where I go next I don't know. I do know two things. I hate commuting and I'm soo sick+tired of making no money. Though I will admit Eagle is much better for money, I feel like I am raking in the cash. I am clearing nearly $1000 more a month than I did at commutair. Really though it still not the greatest salary out there. Could be a lot better. I hoping to step it up to corporate or legacy. Not sure. I am trying to get as much time in on my first year at Eagle and make the move as an FO. I really do not want to get used to capt pay and then take big hit in pay. Its not easy, I limit myself because I don't want to move but, I am willing to deal with it. It leaves me either AA or USair. Both not really the two most desirable companies. AA is really backlogged with flowbacks and contracts. USair first year pay is horrible, 25$ c'mon. Though the E190 seems to be $41, not sure why, I can't seem to get an answer to that. So Oh well, theres my two two cents.....
Also, don't forget about the estimated 1500 furloughed pilots at US (I’m sure it’s changed and APC is behind on updating US’s page). As far as the pay is concerned, it will only be $25 until they agree upon a merger and you won't get hired before then with all those pilots waiting for calls. I'm sure most of the furloughed pilots have moved on to UPS or FedEx. Maybe they'll get 10% to return, maybe.
08-01-2007, 05:20 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 850
One of the original threads addressing potential lateral moves involved a low time pilot going to a low pay "bad" regional in order to build the time necessary to go to a higher paying "better" regional. I was one that supported a lateral career move, but mentioned that it is a personal choice.
I maintain my position that lateral career moves, as long as they meet your needs can be good moves. Moving just to move is one thing, but at the end of the day you need to be happy about who you work for and how your quality of life is progressing.
Personally, I'm looking at taking a 60-75% (you read that right) paycut by going to the airlines in order to be home with my family more, fly more, and have control over my life and future. But I know that is a small, temporary sacrafice to be happier when I leave for work in the morning.
What one person does may look crazy to some one on the outside, when infact it is a well thought out, purposful decision.
I maintain my position that lateral career moves, as long as they meet your needs can be good moves. Moving just to move is one thing, but at the end of the day you need to be happy about who you work for and how your quality of life is progressing.
Personally, I'm looking at taking a 60-75% (you read that right) paycut by going to the airlines in order to be home with my family more, fly more, and have control over my life and future. But I know that is a small, temporary sacrafice to be happier when I leave for work in the morning.
What one person does may look crazy to some one on the outside, when infact it is a well thought out, purposful decision.
08-01-2007, 06:14 PM
#20
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Originally Posted by mike734
Some recent posts talk about working for one regional only to get enough experience to work for another regional. My advice? Don't make lateral moves.
Keep moving up to bigger, faster aircraft. There is no such thing as a good regional. OK, Horizon may be an exception.
Seriously though, if your goal is great pay, days off and a pension, you have to keep moving toward the airline with the biggest/most aircraft. That may look wrong in todays market (no airline is great at the moment, including SW) but if the pilot shortage continues and gets worse, the majors are going to be the place to be.
Lateral moves look bad and don't help your career (with a few exceptions). Build PIC time and move upwards.
Keep moving up to bigger, faster aircraft. There is no such thing as a good regional. OK, Horizon may be an exception.
Seriously though, if your goal is great pay, days off and a pension, you have to keep moving toward the airline with the biggest/most aircraft. That may look wrong in todays market (no airline is great at the moment, including SW) but if the pilot shortage continues and gets worse, the majors are going to be the place to be. Lateral moves look bad and don't help your career (with a few exceptions). Build PIC time and move upwards.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
