Jet University
 

Ok, doeas anyone know anything about this training program besides what they see on the full page adds in aviation magazines? Dont they promise jobs? Then again i guess with any kind of jet experience nowadays, you can get a job. Ive got friends who are still in training an are frustrated...they keep asking me about it..and I have no information. The only training im familiar with is from FlightSafety Academy in VB, Fl. So I tell them all to go there.


Thoughts?????

Don't waste your time and money on worthless highway robbers like Jet University. With the regionals hiring with such low time, there is no need to p*ss your money away. Get your CFI, instruct for about 3 - 6 months, then get hired. Save yourself about $50,000. I did all my training from private to CFI at a mom and pop FBO for less than $30,000, and I got hired at a regional with 460 hours. Don't waste your money.

From what I've been told before, Jet U's only bridge is Pinnacle. 9E is hiring it seems mostly Jet U guys, considering supposedly they teach Pinnacle procedures only there. But I agree with the previous post. You'd get much better experience and you'd learn to appreciate the 121 job more after flight instructing. You wouldn't stand in awe at all that "IFR stuff we have to do in the winter." (Yes, I've actually heard that one.)

Run away from this place. Like the preivous posters said, there is no need to go this path. 3 to 4 years ago may have made some sense, but now, no way. You can get a job almost anywhere without their help.

Before anyone says "Run away", consider this: A guy with 194TT and about 5 ME got hired by Pinnacle out of Jet U (disclaimer - I went to Jet U and got hired by PSA).

Do you need to get your CFI? - No
Is it expensive? - Yes
Will you get a job? - So far, 100% yes
Will you be flying a CRJ in about 4 months instead of a C-172? - Yes
Costs $27,000 (last I heard), not $50,000
ATP Written at 80% or better is required for interviewing with Pinnacle, so you will have that done and out of the way

The word I got is that Jet U is less tied to Pinnacle than it was just a few months ago, but that is rumor. A couple of us went to PSA and others are looking at Air Wisconsin. There is (was?) no requirement to interview with Pinnacle, but it was very easy since Pinnacle came out to Jet U to conduct interviews. If you want to go somewhere other than Pinnacle, Jet U will make an introduction and do what they can to get you an interview.

Jet U wasn't airline nirvana, and there were some very frustrating/maddening times for me but, in the end, I started in March and will be flying CRJs in November (I could be flying them now but took some time for family reasons).

The best suggestion I can make is this: What do you want to be doing in 6 months from now, and what are you willing to pay to do it? Yes, CFI'ing pays as much or more than 1st year FO'ing, but you'll be losing seniority every day you are not in the system and there is some value in that.

It is not my intent to defend or support Jet U or any other school like it. Just weigh where you are right now and what it will take to get where you want to be.

Finally, for those who tell you that you can get on with very few hours and not go to a school, I got on with fairly low hours, but a guy with an A&P and about 500 hours did not, nor did a CFI with over 600 hours. Another friend has actual Challenger time and is a CFII/MEI and still did not get hired (no, she is not a goon and hopefully she's been hired by now). When you get done with these schools, you will have up to 80 hours in a CRJ FTD or Sim, and that has a lot of value to the airlines. Getting hired off the street from these airlines is not as easy as it appears when you have competition from people who go to these schools or are coming from other airlines because they don't want to commute anymore.

That's what I would tell your friends.

Answer this question for me. If you don't get hired on at Pinnacle or where ever. because you fail the sim ride or written test during the interview, or any other reason. Now what? No CFI, you can't go fly 135 VFR. Now you have to spend even more money to get the CFI.

Why waste all that money to "maybe" get a job flying an RJ? If you have a CFI, at least if you don't get on with a regional you can still have a flying job, and you spent a lot less money.

That has happened and (I finished in July so I cannot speak to each and every event) they have all been hired by someone.

It happened to me, though I didn't fail the interview. I'm an "older" guy and there was some suspicion - evidently - that the younger FO's thought I might not be very good at taking instructions from a 24 yr old, so I was not offered a job. I am now going to PSA and think I am better for it.

Bottom line - Jet U gets you a job or they give you your money back. Even if you don't get hired, how can all that experience really be a waste of time?

I wonder if they put that in writing? :rolleyes:

Seems like another RAA....

All that "Experience" isnt gonna prepare you for the real thing....its gonna prepare you for the simulator....where minus the emergencies...everything runs like clock work. when was the last time you were kept at 6000 ft best forward airspeed until the marker...then expected to drop your RJ onto a 5200 foot strip in the simulator? when was the last time u blew through a final approach course in the sim cuz of a *******ty vector...not cuz you werent prepared? I was a sim instructor at FSI before i went to an airline, and although these sims are pretty realistic...its still not the real airplane Dont get me wrong schools like that are good because they can teach crew concept. But for all these 200 hr pilots who have less than 100 multi....saying that you have "Experience" from doing one of these programs...it crap. For all the "Experience" that these guys are paying for...they are still dropping out of training.

I started this thread just to see what people knew about the program...to see if it was just another PFT place like gulfstream

Enjoy life at Freedom.

God help the poor captains that have to fly with these 200 hour pilots. can you say single pilot RJ captain. At 200 hours you may be able to manipulate the controls reasonably well but thats probably it, throw in busy ATC frequencies, bad weather and most anything else and the level of safety goes way down. I will not put my family on one of these flights. Go flight instruct for a couple hundred hours and then go fly an RJ, you will be so much more competent and safe plus you can fall back on your CFI certificate if the industry takes a dump. Without it you will not be very marketable without hardly any PIC time. Just my two cents.

194TT and 5ME?!? That person is going to take double or maybe triple the required time to upgrade.

What specifically would you like to know other than what I told you? Guys get jobs out of there and evidently the airlines, at least some of them, think the training is good.

Again, I wasn't trying to defend or support, just pass on information. It would appear, though, that you, and many others, already have an opinion.

CL65Driver, section 20 of the contract defines the refund policy for a successful "graduate". It provides additional training for free or 250 hours of turboprop/turbine time. If it gets to that, they told me they usually also offer your money back as that is usually less than buying you the flight time.

There seem to be two camps when discussing places like Jet U or Gulfstream, et al: those who think people should "earn" their hours rather than "pay" for them and those who want to use all available resources to get to their paid (granted, not well-paid) position with an airline. Feel free to discuss it amongst yourselves, but it is a waste of time. The airlines will hire and fire whomever they want, regardless of where they came from, and it isn't anyone's fault. The thing I notice most of all is that no one seems to be willing - or able - to compare working in a small cubicle in the real world versus a small cockpit at FL 340. I've been there and done that, and I can't believe how angry pilots are with each other. I'll take the cockpit any day.

Beagle Pilot, I will let you know how he does, but he has passed orals and is headed to the sim. I expect he will do just fine. Maybe the captains will have to work a little harder, I don't know, but that is what the OE is for.

Very experienced pilots still drive their perfectly good airplanes into the ground.

Flyboy8784 think of it like this. Many places that hire, I'm talking the big dogs like Legacy, Majors, Fractionals, all have total time requirements. Lets say they want 1500hrs PIC. If you're a CFI you'll get that in about a year. Then you can go somewhere to get a little jet experience then start sending your resumes out again to get that nice job for the rest of your life.

Now pretend you have 250hrs, of which about 175ish will be PIC. You can go to a regional, make $20k-50k, and will fly about 900+hrs a year. All this time will be sic. You'll be at that regional for a few years before you upgrade. Lets say 3-4 years possibly by the time you get there. Now you've spend all that time training and up to 4 years BEFORE you start logging more PIC. Now you need another year and a half to get to that 1500pic. That could be 5.5yrs you've been at a regional making crappy pay JUST to get to where the other guy already was who was a CFI for a year.

Yes there are different types of PIC. There is jet pic vs. piston and multi vs. prop. However it's still nice to have a little of it under your belt regardless of what it's in. I personally never wanted to fly at a regional. I wanted to stay cargo and just kind of ended up here. I don't plan on staying long. I had about 1900hrs total time when hired. Most of that was PIC. I've met the requirements at the places I plan on working at next in that aspect. Now I'm sitting right seat getting my jet and 121 experience in. Withing exactly two years I have gone from 360hrs to just over 2200hrs of flight time. I have roughly 1800hrs pic and 350ish jet time. I'm getting 75-80hrs a month in the jet easily so one day when I hit 2500hrs I can start sending out resumes again. Obviously I know I might not hear from anyone for a while but I can still get them out there and then keep them updated.

The main thing is where will you be when the music stops? You have a commercial rating but no real flight time and experience yet. What if PIN stops what's going on? It's happened before. Go over to flight info and read about guys that were in the CAP(?) program. Some of them really got screwed with their pants on in that deal. If you are going to start go get your CFI. Places like ALL ATP can shotgun you through even though I don't think that route gives the best quality of learning. There are also places like american fliers too. A CFI ticket will give you something to use in the event the regional stops what they are doing. Also it was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. I hated the idea of having to do it and absolutely loved it. I met more people and flew more aircraft because of it. It also allowed me to get my times to a more competitive position for the regionals as well as my future goals. The quickest route now isn't always the fastest or best in the long run.

Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for the poor quality of this message. You can blame the ASA crew from last night for that.

Uh, you can get a job with 172 experience nowadays.

Even then, they couldn't upgrade because an ATP requires 250 PIC. So they are either going to be career FO's or paying to rent to get the time. Stupid.

Whoa! I'm speechless. You sound like the Aviation program director at the university that told me to change my nursing major to aviation because a nursing degree "may actually hurt me in getting an airline job". Well, I thought the guy was full of it so I stayed in nursing and I work at UPS now.

Not to be rude, but you have one or two good points but for the most part, "whoa" is all I have to say.

That's scary right there. I'm glad I'm not a captain at the regionals anymore.

Word!:D

I don't even want to ride in the back of one anymore...:eek:

It's not a waste of time unless you consider the fact that it's really not much of an experience. You don't become a good pilot in 200 hours over 4 months. That doesn't even expose you to a quarter of the weather we see throughout the year.

Captains shouldn't be teaching basic airmanship with 50 pax in the back.

Texaspilot76, I don't know if the airlines have programs to deal with this, but there are 250 hour SIC provisions along the line of: ...performing the duties of PIC while under the supervision of a PIC...". FAR 61.159. You probably know more about that than I do, though.

Me either, wait till something happens and these regionals will change their mins.

however a lot of places also list what they credit as PIC for the job/upgrade. and that usually means that you're the one that signed for the A/C, and were the final decision holder, AKA, the guy in the left seat.

I know in 92, a nursing major was the only one that the USN wouldn't accept for AOCS. The reason, the navy needed nurses more than they needed pilots.

I see a few points some of you are trying to make, which are mostly redundant -- "why would you pay 27k for a CRJ course?"...... "I wouldn't fly in the back or want to be the Captain with one of these FO's"......

Let me start off by saying that I currently go to JetU. Yes, I went the traditional flight training route and was close to getting my CFI when I made the decision to come out here. I had been "sitting on the fence" between deciding whether to instruct or come here for quite some time.

Some of the factors that brought me here:

• I wanted the extra training. Sure, I've been told a thousand times that what you learn as a CFI is priceless -- more than what you initially learn during training. However, from the research that I did (talking to graduates who already made it through), I learned that the education you receive here is in-depth and puts you far ahead of people in your class at the airlines. You spend 3 days covering a system that Pinnacle might spend 3 hours talking about. Bottom line -- by the time you get out of here, as I learned, you'll know the plane inside and out, plus some. Now I'm seeing that first hand, and I don't regret coming here one bit.
• The job. Yeah, they have the arrangement with Pinnacle which has been working out so far (for the most part). All your training material comes straight from Pinnacle including sim profiles, flows, etc. But outside of Pinnacle -- guys from here have gone to Air Wisconsin, PSA, and now Mesa.
• Being a more qualified and marketable candidate. All of those airlines mentioned above (and now a couple more) will take guys from here with a Comm/ME because they really value the training we receive here. Go ahead -- hit the quote button now and start trying to argue this. Bottom line -- those regionals prefer jet training -- so save a click and send the e-mail to the airlines. Other airlines have been trying to get an arrangement going with JetU, but from my undertanding they can't because Pinnacle's contract with the school gives them "first pick" from Jet U candidates. Why do they value the training here? Hmm, maybe because the 20% - 30% washout rate some of these places are seeing is something they'd like to change. But what do I know.
• I had the money. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you I don't think the 27 grand isn't overpriced. Hell, the only costs this place has (for the CRJ program) is staffing and the simulator. But I had the money, I did my research, and though there are some problems here, it's worth putting up with. Would I come here if I were already in 80k debt? Absolutely not.

To those of you who say "hell I wouldn't want to be a captain with one of these guys".... or "I won't fly Pinnacle"....... please, don't forget all the other airlines out there these days hiring 250TT guys (PSA, Piedmont, Mesa, etc). Would you fly them? Would you fly any airline in Europe?

Could I have gone to one of these places without JetU and it's fat price tag? Probably. But one other reason I came here was to make sure training would work out -- since I didn't want to end up in that 20 - 30%. Could it still happen to me? Sure. Has it happened to Jet U guys? Yes. Has every JetU guy that's wanted a CRJ job gotten one.... eventually? I'm pretty sure, yes.

But I think those risks -- going from a 172 to a CRJ -- are greatly minimized with a course like this. I have plenty of confidence in myself and my study habits, but I do know that bad things happen to good people.... and minimizing the risks was worth the cost for me in addition to the other reasons I stated above. I am sure that of those who have washed out of training at the airlines, most probably knew their stuff -- but had a hard time with the transition.

Again -- is it worth it? So far, I'd say yes. But only time will tell. The program is incredibly challenging -- definitely not a walk in the park. But the instruction you receive here is great -- from instructors who were/ are at Emirates, Comair, corporate, and cargo carriers. They know their stuff.

The last point I want to make is that JetU is not PFT. Personally, I don't agree with PFT at all. JetU is simply a school advancing your knowledge of the CRJ as well as 121 ops. Because of this program, which certain airlines see as beneficial, you can get hired with much lower times. We're not paying for a job, for time, or subsidizing any training costs for any airlines.

Sorry for sounding a little like a recruiter here -- just trying to clear up some points and give some insight.

All those guys mentioned take those candidates because they know they have you by the balls for the next few years and they have massive staffing shortages. Once those shortages are fixed you'll find their marketing changing.

I'm sure ab initio training in Europe is better than the joke training programs we have here. You also don't get a book with all the possible questions on your written tests in Europe.

You can't perform the duties of PIC unless you are the Captain. You are NOT acting as PIC when you are the flying pilot.

I appreciate the comments you made earlier in your post, and can understand why someone who doesn't need to worry about the cost might select the JetU program.

However, I disagree with the paragraph above. JetU is a roundabout form of PFT. It is the airlines job to teach you 121 ops and aircraft specific training. If some PCL guys just happen to come from JetU, then that's really no big deal. However, if the PCL recruiting department is sending out emails telling applicants that they will not be considered until they first give JetU $27,000, then that is absolutely the airline pushing pilots to pay for training.

Look at it this way: When you get your private cert, instrument rating, commercial cert, and ME ratings, you are actually earning real qualifications which you can use all around this great planet of ours. But what does JetU actually QUALIFY a pilot to do? Get a job at PCL? If that's the case, then it's pay for training.

What freightpuppy said is true. These training programs are a joke, I was just in class with a couple Canadian pilots and they knew there ****** alot more then all us Americans. These written test in the U.S.A are ridicoulous all it takes is a good three days of memorization and you can pass the ATP written and not know anything. 200 or even 500 hour FOs are ridiculous and it will someday bite the industry. We have been lucky so far I believe because of all the high time captains that have been stuck at the regionals since 9/11 but with alot of them moving on there will be a change in the experience level of the guy in the left seat and now the guy in the right seat has never been in a cloud and has 80 hours in a sim that is being taught by an instructor who may have never flown the real thing. I am no expert and am not a high time pilot around 2500 hours but common sense to me is that these pilots are highly underqualified to be flying the public around.

Sure, if you want to get technical, PFT -- Pay For Training, can be seen in all realms of aviation. From Southwest to corporate flight departments to guys going through a 5 day RJ Standards course at ATP to guys at Jet U. Call it what you want.

Though Pinnacle does provide the training materials, from my understanding they don't get a slice of the 27 grand. Once you're hired, you still go through ALL the training that any other new hire goes through. Also, if they did get a slice they probably wouldn't come here and play stupid games like giving tests during interviews filled with questions about Q-Routes, RNAV, etc., when staff here are specifically instructed NOT to teach about these topics. "External applicants" have never, ever received tests like that. We'll see what they have in store for this next group interviewing later this month.

Pinnacle encourages people without their minimum time requirements to go to JetU because they're dying for pilots, and they know if somebody signs up at JetU they'll be on a fast track to their airline. However, JetU "graduates" are by no means obligated to go to that airline. In fact, to be honest with you -- I bet there'll be a large amount who don't go to Pinnacle in the near future (especially considering some of the latest "issues"). Many people here have their sights set on Air Wisconsin and PSA, and both of those airlines have their sights set on us.

So I would still definitely argue that this is not PFT. It's learning the CRJ -- operated by dozens of airlines -- which simply makes a low time guy more marketable to all airlines. Not just Pinnacle.

It's PFT. You're spending money to shortcut your way into a job. Sad thing is you're buying into this hype. There are plenty of people getting hired with low times right now that didn't spend a crapton of money on a program that was sold to you as the only way to get in. Look at the companies that utilize this. Pinnacle, Mesa, places that most people aren't going or are leaving in droves.

You should never pay to get a job, and this is what you're doing. Once you're there the airline is going to teach you everything you need to know. I never had touched a jet before and I'm doing just fine, so are thousands of others.

All you are doing by going to Jet U is lowering standards for you and everybody else. By paying that much just to get a "leg up" you're undermining all the work that those who have spent years working for low wages are trying to fix. You're just keeping the stream of cheap, inexperienced labor open for management.

that sums it up. I am so sick of these rich kids paying to become an underpaid First Officer. There are a few of us out there that have had to work our a**es off to make ends meet because this is all we ever wanted to do was fly airplanes and Daddy doesn't pay for our rent and SUV payment.

If you want to be marketable to a regional airline go and get all your certificates then get about 1000 to 1500 hours as an instructor and about 500 multi and maybe even a little turbine time by hangin out at your local fbo and doing it the old fashioned way, then you can go to any regional you want and you don't have to go to a dump like pinch nickel or whatever. Also, believing that you have gained "experience" by using these kind of programs is rediculous. Real experience is gained by flying a real airplane. Paying to fly in a simulator is a redundant waste of time and money since you're going to get to do it when you get to an airline anyway. Also if you gain experience the old fashioned way you will be more than qualified to fly for any regional, not just the ones that have a crj.

What about guys at Southwest? They're among the most respected pilots out there, and most of them (without prior 737 experience) had to make an investment in their training. Sure, it was for a much higher paying job. But for the guys that had to buy the type before being hired -- their training wouldn't do much help at a carrier without 737s. Same concept, TXTECHKA.

Yea -- flying is exactly what I've ever wanted to do as well. So since I didn't have to take out a loan that makes you sick? That's how life works. I'm sorry you may have had to work harder to fund your training, but don't take that frustration out on those who haven't had as hard of a time.

Edit--

And come to think of it, after posting that.... it's interesting how those most opposed to programs like JetU seem to be the ones who had to "sweat blood" to get to the right seat while flight instructing, banner towing, etc. I hold a lot of respect for those of you who did that, and I would have done the same thing if I had to. Though I respect the path it took for some of you to get there, I get tired of the animosity directed at those who didn't walk in your footsteps. Get over it; times have changed.

Not exactly, southwest requires a 737 type before they start training, not for an interview even though it is helpful to have it. It is something that the company has done for a long time. Yes it is paying for some specific training but the pilots hired at southwest actually have enough experience to be there, they could go to other airlines with the experience they have without paying for anything extra. They aren't doing it as a short cut which is exactly what the pay for a regional job training is designed to provide.

Man, you're really going to win people over with that attitude. I'd love to be there when a captain eats you alive.

I'm not in any way defending Southwest, but when you look at what they pay first year compared to Continental, United and others you're going to have that type rating paid for in about 5 months. Neither way is right but the low first year pay and no bennies like you have at CO is far worse in my mind.

Times haven't changed, and you still can't buy experience.

Not true. See FAR 61 requirements for an ATP license. An SIC doing his normal pilot flying thing does not count, but if you both agree that the SIC will be "performing the duties of the PIC" and log it as such it counts toward the 250 hours of PIC required for the ATP.

This does NOT mean the time is PIC, or is logged as PIC, or will count toward anyone's hiring mins. It is logged as SIC (performing the duties of PIC) and counts only for the ATP experience requirements. This time does NOT count for ICAO requirements.